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WADE WINGLER: Welcome to ATFAQ, Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions with your host Brian Norton, Director of Assistive Technology at Easter Seals Crossroads. This is a show in which we address your questions about assistive technology, the hardware, software, tools and gadgets that help people with disabilities lead more independent and fulfilling lives. Have a question you’d like answered on our show? Send a tweet with the hashtag #ATFAQ, call our listener line at 317-721-7124, or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. The world of assistive technology has questions, and we have answers. And now here’s your host, Brian Norton.
BRIAN NORTON: Hello and welcome to ATFAQ episode 39. Today in the studio I have three of my good friends. Belva Smith, you want to say hey to the group?
BELVA SMITH: Hi everybody.
BRIAN NORTON: Belva is our vision team lead here at Easter Seals crossroads. And also Josh Anderson.
JOSH ANDERSON: Hi everybody.
BRIAN NORTON: Josh is our manager of clinical assistive technology. And also Wade Wingler.
WADE WINGLER: Hello everybody.
BRIAN NORTON: He is the popular host of AT update. My name is Brian Norton. I’m the host of the show. For those that are new listeners, I just want to go over a few things with you, how the show works, talk about the format a little bit. We receive questions from a variety of different places, all assistive technology related. We also received feedback from our listeners. As we get those questions, we try to answer them in a panel format, but we also rely on our listeners to be able to chime in and provide their feedback with answers that we may not have come up with or maybe were not thinking of. Please, as you guys listen today, listen closely. If you find a question you might have a good answer for, give us a call. We have a couple of different ways for you to do those things. You can ask a question or provide feedback on our listener line at 317-721-7124. You can email us at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Or you can send us a tweet. We do monitor the hashtag ATFAQ. Send us a tweet as well. Again , for folks that you may know and may have an interest after listening to us this time, if you have folks that may want to listen to us as well, you can find us on iTunes. You can find us on our website at ATFAQshow.com. Also go to stitcher or at www.eastersealstech.com. A variety of different ways to find us can’t get a hold of us and provide your feedback and questions.
Without further ado, we’ll jump into a little bit of feedback. We got a call and we’ll pay that for you.
SPEAKER: This is Darren from Indianapolis, and I’m calling to let you know in your last episode with prettily asked questions, you guys, the very first question was talking about dealing with the iOS update. You briefly mentioned some of the apps now that are coming out with the Siri Kit to interact with Siri, so apps will work with Siri with your iOS device. One of the apps I wanted to make you aware of as of this call, September 30, as of September 28 there is an app called Roger that a lot of the blind and visually impaired people use. You guys may have already heard of it. The latest update with that is it will now interact with Siri with your mobile device. I have not had a chance to test it, but if you guys want to test and see how it works and mention it on an upcoming show, I’m sure there are a lot of people that would appreciate it. That Roger app also worked a lot with the IFTTT. It has a lot to do with those, and many recipes that you can get to work with Roger with that. Like I said, I know a lot of blind and visually impaired people use it, but it’s also geared just for keeping in contact with your family to communicate. That’s the Roger app.
BRIAN NORTON: Excellent. It seems that Roger app is kind of a group walkie-talkie voice messenger type of that. He mentioned IFTTT, which is If This Than That.
WADE WINGLER: Everybody just calls it “If” now because of that. How many T’s is it?
BRIAN NORTON: Interesting. I think that is a new phenomenon as we see these new introductions of Siri kit, not only that but the home kit and also the ability to be able to put in map integration into apps as well. Just going to open up a whole new world of possibilities for folks, specifically the app developers who are designing really useful apps for folks were not only blind or visually impaired , may have learning disabilities, physical impairments, those kinds of things.
BELVA SMITH: Thanks Darren. We’ll be happy to check out and report to you in a couple of weeks.
BRIAN NORTON: Perfect.
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BRIAN NORTON: This next question came in over email. Again, if you have questions or feedback that you’d like to provide, you can give us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. This question is, I work at a conference center and occasionally have requests for braille for participants. What would I need in order to do that? To be able to provide braille copies of – I’m thinking agendas, training guides, other kinds of things for participants. I’ll open that up to the group. Where is the cricket?
BELVA SMITH: If you want to produce the braille yourself, and that may be something you want to do in-house, but then again it might not because it is going to be kind of costly as an upfront expense. You’re going to need, first of all, a computer. Then you’re going to need software that will take her print and turned it into text. You’re going to then need an embosser, and that’s where the big expense is because I think nowadays is the cheapest embosser you can get is going to be around $3500 , probably more like $5900. Almost $6000 to get the embosser. Then you’re probably also going to want a braille proofreader because getting your texts converted to braille seems like, oh, scan the print into the computer and then run it through the special software which, in this case, would be Duxbury which is about $600 itself. It’s going to then automatically appear perfectly edited and correct on the page. Unfortunately that is not the case. Once the text has been converted to braille, it’s still going to need to be proofread and formatting, because you will lose the formatting most of the time. So a computer, the software, and embosser, you’re looking around $78,000 upfront.
BRIAN NORTON: Wow. That’s an expense.
BELVA SMITH: And then the paper too.
WADE WINGLER: Is anyone feeling like I do when I asked my father-in-law a plumber question? He says, oh, yeah, it’s easy. You just did this and this and this. Then I look at YouTube and I still can’t do it on my own.
BELVA SMITH: You can do it on your own, but if you can’t read the braille, you are not going to have an idea of what you’re spitting out.
BRIAN NORTON: Right. There is an online research at BrailleWorks.com, is a great way to be able to upload a document, but I don’t know if it gets proofread there or not.
BELVA SMITH: I’m thinking it doesn’t get proofread.
BRIAN NORTON: Essentially you upload a document to it, and then it will actually then email you a copy – no, I think it sends to you through the mail a braille copy of that. I don’t know in this particular situation if I have an attendee who needs braille and they probably need it right away. Unless I had time to be able to do that, leave time. I don’t know if it would make a big difference. Interesting.
BELVA SMITH: You might be able to check with some of the local illnesses that might be able to offer it for you, but again I’m not sure they’re going to do the proofreading. That’s the key to it. You may find somebody, for example like us, who has an embosser who is willing to produce one for you here and there, but they are probably not going to do the proofreading for you. I would suggest to this individual to maybe see when they have a braille request if an electronic copy would suffice the individuals need. Most individuals that need braille also will have a way to read an electronic copy and may have a braille display where they can read it in braille.
BRIAN NORTON: Right. It’s important to know that braille is often times two times larger than print size documents. If I do a braille document, what may be one page and print is probably two pages in braille. Things get big and cumbersome depending on which were actually printing. Also, I was just thinking if you have pictures, graphs, any of that stuff, print braille doesn’t do anything for you in that regard. You have to have textile graphics made. That’s a whole another area of braille printing that can be pretty sophisticated and require some specific software to make that happen.
BELVA SMITH: I think braille is very important, and I think that we should provide it when we can. But again, I think that in this situation, possibly an electronic copy might work in most cases.
JOSH ANDERSON: Wouldn’t you be able to borrow a braille display or something like that from a tech act project? If you just needed it for one individual, as long as they know how to use it, then you can just give them the digital copy and you can actually pop up in braille form.
WADE WINGLER: You certainly could. I would also suggest that because we are talking about a local need and you have to physically get the print out somewhere, talk to your local AT act project as well, because they probably know where those resources are and can point them to you. The other place I would suggest looking is the local NFB chapter or other local blindness organizations, because depending on the volume and frequency, they might be able to point you to a resource of somebody locally who just does that and can make that available to you. But if you’re going to be doing a lot of it, if you are the conference center and you’re going to get this request three times a week, you might want to consider looking into developing those resources and getting an embosser or establishing a relationship with one of these online places. It’s been my experience that turnaround time is a big deal on these things.
BELVA SMITH: If you are going to do that, you might be able to check with some of the local schools, colleges, or high schools where they have folks that are using braille. They may volunteer to do your proofreading and formatting for you.
BRIAN NORTON: Practice for the teachers, students, in resource centers.
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BRIAN NORTON: Our next question is, I have a client using a power wheelchair was planning on doing some house shopping. She’s trying to figure out a way for her friend to store a portable ramp at her place and then bring it to the showings to allow her to get in and out of the house and that she visits. Wondering if anyone has any particular expense with portable ramps.
WADE WINGLER: Brian, I know you do. We have one you use a lot.
BRIAN NORTON: As a part of our lending library here, our loan library with the INDATA Project, Indiana’s assistive technology act, we have probably 4 to 5, maybe six or seven ramps available for folks that they can borrow. They are little foldable, metal ramps, suitcase ramps. I actually borrow them frequently. I have a small group with my church. We use it. We have a lady who has muscular dystrophy, and she gets in and out of our house that way. We use a little foldable, for the rent we keep in our graduate we are not using it, turn it back and when I’m not using it to the library so other folks and use it too. Little compact, foldable, aluminum ramps. You can find lots of those. There is a great resource. It’s EZaccess.com, has some different types of ramps available there for you. You can take a look at those.
WADE WINGLER: I think one of the things you have to remember when you’re doing that is the pitch of the ramp or the steepness of the ramp is going to matter a whole lot. The rule of thumb is 12 inches of rise for every 12 inches of the run cost every foot a goes up you need to have your rent be about – no that’s not right.
BRIAN NORTON: For every inch of elevation, you need a foot-long ramp.
WADE WINGLER: Right, exactly. A foot step up requires a 12 – I’m trying to do math here. I’m tired.
BRIAN NORTON: That is correct.
WADE WINGLER: Those are harder to get in portable format. The little four and six and eight foot ramps that we keep in our library in Indian are only going to get you up a little step or over a very slight step. If you’re house shopping, you may be looking at houses with all different kinds of front entryways. You have to think a lot about that.
BRIAN NORTON: When you get these foldable suitcase ramps, is what I believe they are called, anything over six feet gets to be pretty cumbersome. To be able to carry that back and forth a lot can be pretty challenging. Obviously your vehicle needs to be able to house it and store it, so you probably need a minivan or something like that to be able to fit those things in. Think about how high something needs to be, what is that rise that you need to get into the house, and then plan accordingly with the size of ramp you need. It is important to keep that one foot of – I’m sorry, one inch of rise equals one foot of length on your ramp.
BELVA SMITH: About how expensive are one of those?
BRIAN NORTON: I don’t know.
WADE WINGLER: Probably around a couple hundred dollars.
BELVA SMITH: Really? I was thinking thousands.
BRIAN NORTON: They typically come into foot, four foot, six foot, eight foot, I believe up to 10 foot. Again, as they get bigger, they are harder to manage.
BELVA SMITH: Sure.
BRIAN NORTON: A couple of other things just to keep in mind as well. A lot times if you’re trying to get over a larger rise and don’t have the length of ramp you need, a lot of wheelchairs have tilt in space on their wheelchairs, so being able to properly position yourself so you’re not leaning forward or back, especially when you’re going down a ramp, you might want to be able to tilt in space a little bit to be able to give yourself a little bit more leverage as you go down the ramp. That’s something to keep in mind as well.
BELVA SMITH: So that’s definitely going to be something that takes some preplanning as they decide what house they are going to go look at. They are going to have to figure out are they going to be able to get in the front or maybe the back or through the garage.
BRIAN NORTON: I would say with these portable ramps, don’t think of them is something that is permanent. I kind of use it almost as a permanent solution for us at our house to be able to get our friend in and out of our house; however, it’s not something that’s meant to be permanent.
BELVA SMITH: Portable is not meant to be mistaken for permanent.
BRIAN NORTON: There are many organizations out there that can provide reduced cost or free ramps for getting into your home permanently. They can build them for you. Once you find your home, once you’ve identified one you want to purchase, definitely consider can we put a ramp on there, what would it look like, and then start looking for those organizations that can help you
WADE WINGLER: As I was poking around the web here as we were chatting, those ramps start a little less than I thought. Around $100 or so for some of those, up to $200-$250. I did realize that most of them are part of a dealer network, so they are an organization that sells ramps and are probably doing accessible vans and things like that as well. Don’t think of those organizations as a resource as you’re looking for those [portable] kinds of things. The folks who sell those things might know where there are loaners available or might even have a fleet of loaners that they could use for situations like that. There are vendors out there that might be able to help find a trusted one and talk to them.
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BRIAN NORTON: Our next question was also through email. Again, if you have questions you want to send us, you can give us a phone call at 317-721-7124, or you can email us at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. This one is, I have retinitis pigmentosa and use the K NFB reader app on my iPad to read printed materials. But I have trouble consistently holding the iPad over the text to get a good scan. Is there a durable you would recommend?
WADE WINGLER: Brian and I just did a presentation over the weekend for a small group. This is actually one of the questions that we had, is how do we keep the phone or iPad still while we are trying to capture the text. I personally like the scan jig. You can get that at Amazon, and it’s under $50. It’s plastic and can hold either the phone or tablet. Little fold pretty flat and go into most backpacks, so it can go with you if you’re taking it to school or to work or whatever. It collapses but stands up really quick. We have also seen a really cool stand —
BRIAN NORTON: From Belkin.
BELVA SMITH: — Just this morning. I think it was around $100, wasn’t it?
JOSH ANDERSON: It’s right around $100. It’s the portable stage, and it’s really good.
BELVA SMITH: I was really impressed with that. Of course Brian I know you like the.
BRIAN NORTON: We had that one in our lending library here in Indiana. It’s a durable, metal.
BELVA SMITH: And its adjustable. That’s the good thing about it. but with the scan jig, it’s really simple. You simply put your device in a little slot that’s meant to hold it and then place your document in the back side or front of the scan jig, so it’s perfectly located, and then you just hit your button to take the picture and you got it. Another little tip that I do often share with people if you don’t have a stand, try laying your tablet or phone right in the center of the page that you’re trying to capture and pick it up about 10 inches and use one finger then to tap your button. That usually will work, but you want to put it right in the center and pick it straight up.
BRIAN NORTON: There are so many solutions for this. Early on when they didn’t have a lot of options with these, we were using document holders, the trifold document holder to stick paper on next to your computer monitors. We would take two of those Kostic the iPad on one and about 10 inches behind that we would stick the paper and step picture that way.
BELVA SMITH: I have a client I made one out of cardboard. He just did it himself.
BRIAN NORTON: Is there a search term that we can give people when they are going to Amazon or other places to be able to search for those things? Is it a document stand?
BELVA SMITH: Document stand.
BRIAN NORTON: For mobile devices?
JOSH ANDERSON: IPhone, iPad document stands.
BRIAN NORTON: Perfect.
WADE WINGLER: I’ve got to play the old man in the room card. I was thinking back just to the nature of this question. I remember when I started doing this – I need my rocking chair sound effect. We had a thing called the Kurzweil reading edge which was one of the very first OCR optical character recognition devices. It was six to $8000, and would scan one page in the two minutes, black and white only, and it would read it out there on this device and a very computerized, not good sounding voice. You can save up to 100 pages or something in it. The thing was as big as a microwave oven. The first one I saw had a computer, CPU attached to a big flatbed scanner, and a keypad on the side of that. It just cut the recognition was not that good. The fact that you can now do an iPad and iPhone. What does the K NFB reader app cost? $100, and it’s up and down depending on the sales and things.
BRIAN NORTON: It depends on the operating system.
BELVA SMITH: Wade, it does make me think about the first K NFB reader that I saw when it wasn’t an app. It was actually a cell phone rubber band to a camera. It was $5000. I was not impressed with it. You can hardly use it anywhere except outside because it was always too low lighting. That’s why – in fact we talked about this again on Saturday – when the K NFB reader app came out, I wish I to get it because it was $100 and I was like, I know what that device was like. It was yucky. but when I finally saw it the first time, I was like, not so bad. Seeing it two or three times, okay, I got to try it. It really is amazing how good the application is. Yes, it does depend if you’re buying it for the iOS, you will pay $100. If you’re buying it for android, you’ll get it for $19 and $49.
BRIAN NORTON: It seemed to change frequently.
BELVA SMITH: Yes it does. I’m not sure why it is cheaper for android.
BRIAN NORTON: I have no idea.
WADE WINGLER: I don’t know either.
BRIAN NORTON: Maybe didn’t know about it and now we’ve told everybody and they have to change the prices. That technology has come a long way. I would bet that a lot of our listeners probably, specifically those who are visually impaired or blind, probably have ways they scanned documents and read documents with their phone or mobile device. We would love to hear from you guys about the different solutions you guys use beyond what we mentioned, the document stand, scan jig, the Belkin stage mount that we have, other kinds of things. Whatever you guys use, please chime in. You can reach us at our voicemail at 317-721-7124. Or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Or also you can treat us with the hashtag ATFAQ if you guys have any feedback on that for this particular question.
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BRIAN NORTON: So this next question has to do with low vision as well. This was a Facebook post to us. This one is, I have a friend with low vision who is looking for good magnification apps for android. Any suggestions? I’ll throw that out. I see everybody’s look of terror in their eyes. We focus a lot on iOS. We do have android devices here, but we do have one person on our staff who are spent insignificant amount of time on android. She actually had some good answers for us as far as some different apps. The first one would be Magnifying Glass Plus Flashlight.
BELVA SMITH: that’s iOS and android.
BRIAN NORTON: That goes with both of them. That basically allows the user to use one finger to slide up or down or left and right anywhere to adjust the medication, the contrast, or the brightness fairly easily. She did mention that the basic features are free but it has an in app purchase for some other features. The other one is also iOS and android compatible as well. it’s Brighter and Bigger. In my opinion, it’s maybe a little bit higher quality. It’s got a lot of robust features that are all free so you don’t have to pay for any in app purchases. Again, to use that app you have to have some idea about where the adjustment bars are appeared having some practice with it and working with someone alongside you for a little while might be helpful just to help you figure out where the different controls are to make it work for you.
BELVA SMITH: I found with the app, the controls —
BRIAN NORTON: This is Brighter and Bigger?
BELVA SMITH: Yeah. With that app, the controls actually fade away, which is good because they are out of your way, but then when you’re trying to find them, you do have to be able to get to the right spot to bring the controls back. That’s with iOS. I’m assuming it’s the same with android.
WADE WINGLER: Where would you guys be searching for these things to find apps for android for magnification. Are you just Google in those terms?
BELVA SMITH: I’m just googling.
JOSH ANDERSON: You can Google them. You can look on the play store. There are a lot of free ones. Folks I work with usually download four or five of them, try them out, use them over time. Usually they define one that they like. There’s another one called magnifier and microscope that I’ve used before. One of the nice things is you can use the buttons on the side of the phone. you don’t have to sit around. You can set up which ones do which things, zoom in, take picture.
BELVA SMITH: I may go to the AFB website to see if they have any suggestions on what might be good and what might not. Primarily just googling. I had a person – I don’t want to get off the track of this question. I had a person text me last week who is a client I’ve been working with for the last couple of years in college. She was in need of a financial calculator. And it has to talk, I think it’s going to be like $100. I was like, no, we are going to go straight to the App Store and find one. That’s what we did. Actually we ended up finding one that is free that ended up working out great for her.
BRIAN NORTON: We been doing assistive technology here for a long time and have grown up with the apps. A lot of these apps are things we’ve known about for a long time. Brighter and bigger has been around for a long time. The other one has been around for a long time as well. For new folks, if you’re looking for resources to be able to find apps, there are places you can go. There’s a place called BridgingApps.org. That’s Easter Seals affiliate in Houston. They have a really great search tool where you can do different adjustments based on the cognitive ability of the person, what their disability is, what types of skills they are trying to use with that particular app. It’s a really great search tool where you can drill down very specifically to find apps that might be more so in line with what you are looking for. Georgia Tech has a great one, tools for life. Tools for life has a really great app resource for folks as well. Then I’m trying to think of the other one. We recently learned about it through the arc. I think it’s ArcToolbox.org or .com. I can’t remember it specifically. They also had a pretty good resource. I will say the two that I really try to steer folks to is the tools for life and BridgingApps because those are apps that have been vetted by professionals, moms, parents, other folks. You get really good information, more so than what you might get from the iTunes Store or Google play store.
BELVA SMITH: I’m not really familiar with the Google play store. In fact, I hope I’m one of the first ones in line to get one of those new android tablets because I do want to get more familiar with it. I’m sure that Google play has free apps just the same way the App Store has, right? Then I always will go for the free app first to find out if it’s going to work for me and make my decision as to whether there is a paid version of it if I want to pay for that version or not. I have found some of my favorite apps by doing the free versions. If they are no good, nothing is wasted except some time and just delete it and move on.
BRIAN NORTON: A good example of that would be the look tell money reader versus iNote. I know is free, look tell money reader is going to cost you a couple of dollars. They work very much the same way. You can find really great free apps.
BELVA SMITH: I know one of my favorite money identifiers, and it’s free. There are plenty of paid for ones out there, but I started with the free iNote and I’m still using it. I still recommend it.
BRIAN NORTON: Just like with the magnifying glass, iNote for money reading, there are color identifiers that are free. There are lots of good free resources. I think say color is a free color identifier that does a very good job.
BELVA SMITH: I know android is working really hard to match the quantity and quality of the apps that we have in the iOS world.
BRIAN NORTON: Personally I find the difference between looking in the Google play store and the iTunes Store, I find iTunes to be a lot more organized. I haphazardly find things in the Google play store. I’m not sure if it’s my search terms or whatever I’m trying to look for. I don’t find exactly what I’m trying to look for until I keep digging and digging. I’m just not sure if the Google play store is not organized as well. I just have a hard time finding stuff.
JOSH ANDERSON: I’ve had better luck just googling what you’re looking for and put the word app after it. It usually brings you up to the Google play link to and can go straight from there.
WADE WINGLER: Because Google.
BELVA SMITH: Because you Google it.
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BRIAN NORTON: Our next question is a really short question, shores one for the day. What is OCR?
BELVA SMITH: We’ve had that question before.
BRIAN NORTON: I know we talked about way early on, we got into a large discussion about acronyms and how we all work with acronyms. OCR is definitely one of those.
BELVA SMITH: It’s optical character recognition. What’s that?
BRIAN NORTON: You tell us.
BELVA SMITH: It’s OCR. To get printed text read aloud for a person who is visually impaired, the first thing you have to do is turn it into electronic text. You’re going to do that was some sort of scanning device to capture the text. Once it’s electronic, then you need to turn that electronic text into text that can be read. That’s where the optical character recognition comes in. Usually that’s a software that will do that such as the K NFB reader app that we were just talking about, or open book if you’re using a computer or Kurzweil. Then once that application or software has captured that text, it can then be read back to you. That’s my definition. I’ve seen Wade set up so I think he’s going to correct me.
WADE WINGLER: I think that’s great. I think that’s a great example of how OCR works. Is basically taking a picture of text and converting it into editable, speakable text, which is exactly what you said. It’s something that’s come a long way over time. It used to be a huge deal. It’s still also one of the common mistakes people make when it comes to accessibility. Universities have a tendency to do that. They’ll say I can make my syllabus accessible to somebody who uses assistive technology. Out just scan it and give them an image of the text.
BELVA SMITH: That’s step one.
WADE WINGLER: Right. I’ve seen that happen a whole lot where students are given a scanned inversion of a document. That’s not going to be accessible to a screen reader. it has to go through the OCR process to turn into real, editable text so that it can be read.
BRIAN NORTON: I think the whole taking the picture of the text is what’s changed probably most dramatically over the years. I remember they used to be big, chunky scanners that you take up a lot of room on your desk. Now with the K NFB reader, it’s just using an iPhone or iPad or android device camera that’s attached to the device. Now instead of these sheetfed scanner that take a bar and move it across this paper to get an image, now you just take a picture with your camera and you get higher quality images. These cameras that are coming out on these mobile devices these days are so powerful, so many megapixels. You just get really crisp, clean image is as long as you can hold it steadily and get above the paper so everything is captured. It makes it very useful for stuff.
BELVA SMITH: OCR is also very helpful for folks in an office that may be getting images. Faxes are something that are coming in. Though there is text in them and they may be using a screen reader, they are still not going to be able to access that until it’s been run through some sort of program like open book or Kurzweil back and pull the text from it and do the OCR to read that text back to you. Let me back up and say the screen readers, most of them now do have an OCR feature included in them so that you may not have to have the second software. But in most cases, it’s best if you do.
JOSH ANDERSON: You’ve mentioned how OCR can help folks with visual impairments. It can also help folks that have learning disabilities, and it kind of barrier to reading or barrier to access text and get that information. They can help just having that information read to you. A lot of schools will give you your books in that accessibile forms. You just have to talk to the disability services office to get those kinds of book. Just getting the digital form isn’t always as accessible.
BELVA SMITH: I think the answer to this is OCR is the second step to making the text accessible. The first step is scan it or getting it into an electronic format and then the second step is the OCR step.
WADE WINGLER: It’s also helpful outside of the disability context when somebody says I got this document that I wrote a long time ago but I can rumor where I saved it on my computer and I don’t want to have to type it again. Being able to run through OCR will save your bacon and that situation.
BRIAN NORTON: That’s great. One of the things I found fascinating, do you guys know how long it’s been since OCR has been around.
BELVA SMITH: No.
BRIAN NORTON: As I was doing research for it, I looked up the Wikipedia version of OCR, where it came from. Take a guess.
JOSH ANDERSON: 17 years.
BELVA SMITH: 30.
WADE WINGLER: 1700.
BRIAN NORTON: 1914.
BELVA SMITH: What?
BRIAN NORTON: So in 1914, they were talking about how they could use optical character recognition for technology involving telegraphy and creating reading devices for the blind back in 1914.
WADE WINGLER: Really?
BRIAN NORTON: I thought that was fascinating to know that that is been around.
BELVA SMITH: I never would’ve guessed that.
WADE WINGLER: Brian said telegraphy. I love that.
BRIAN NORTON: 1914. It’s been around for that long.
BELVA SMITH: I know when I first got into the industry, talking about the size of the scanner, for anyone that we using open book or Kurzweil, they did have to have these enormous scanners to put their little piece of paper on. Now those scanners have turned into the little bitty small, portable document scanners. In fact, I just set up an individual who hadn’t had new equipment in a long time. She was shocked when she saw the size of the Canon that I got her. What? That thing is going to do my scanning? Believe it or not, it is.
BRIAN NORTON: Absolutely. Here’s something fun with this question I want to ask our listeners to do. We’ve talked about this a lot on our show about the acronyms we use in this particular field. If you guys have a particular acronym that you know what the answer is and you think it’s funny or interesting. Like one I always love that Wade taught me years ago is Twain scanners.
BELVA SMITH: He taught me that one.
BRIAN NORTON: Technology Without An Interesting Name. If you guys have acronyms like that, give us a call and we would love to be able to play a few of those on the show.
BELVA SMITH: Here’s what I would throw you because this one is techy. IO?
WADE WINGLER: Input output. Do you know ID10T?
BELVA SMITH: No.
WADE WINGLER: If you put it on a calculator —
BRIAN NORTON: Idiot.
WADE WINGLER: That showed up on an IT ad. “Solve your ID10T error.”
BELVA SMITH: I saw the I/O yesterday and I thought I should know that.
WADE WINGLER: Do you know this one? POTS?
BRIAN NORTON: Plain old telephone system. If you guys have any that you know of and would like to share on the show, give us a call. That number is 317-721-7124.
***
BRIAN NORTON: The next question was an email. Is there a handheld device for the blind or visually impaired that acts as a navigational device? Looking for a navigational device like GPS for a person who is blind or visually impaired.
WADE WINGLER: Not a white cane. That’s a handheld device.
BRIAN NORTON: That is a handheld device.
JOSH ANDERSON: It is a navigational device.
BRIAN NORTON: Absolutely. I’ll throw that out to the team.
BELVA SMITH: I guess the Trecker breeze is most commonly used one. I think folks are starting to use their iPhone or the iPod with certain apps on there. It depends on how much they’re going to rely on the device. If they are going to be using it to get around a lot each day, I don’t recommend using the iPhone because you’re going to end up using your battery up really quickly, and then if you need to make a call you aren’t going to be able to. For example, for a lot of kids on college campuses or something or maybe someone living in the downtown Chicago area, they are going to have trouble – because I had this experience – they are going to have trouble keeping a good connection. I would say the Trecker breeze is the most common device.
BRIAN NORTON: That’s the one I found in my research.
BELVA SMITH: It’s been around a while. It’s been a long way. In the beginning it was iffy but it’s come a long way.
BRIAN NORTON: I am excited about what they are going to do with map integration into maps with iOS and to see what that will look like for folks, because I know accuracy is really going to be important for those kinds of things. I’m anxious to see – I don’t know if you guys have played with Apple maps, but Apple maps on the phone is completely different from what it used to be. I like the interface a lot more than what it’s been in the past.
JOSH ANDERSON: One thing that’s nice, just to get back to the Trecker breeze because I’ve used it before and have had consumers use it. It gives a lot of cueing, in so many steps you’re coming to an intersection. This is the road on your left. This is the road on your right. It’s a little more than you get especially from Apple maps. There are some apps that are getting closer but a lot of times it’s like they almost give you too much information you don’t need such as coordinates and things like that that aren’t helpful. When it comes to price, if you are looking at the problems with battery and things like that, the Trecker breeze is around $800 or something like that if I’m not too far off. That’s a little more expensive than a phone on its own. It can be a little pricey, but it does really well with the cueing. You can mark different things so it will tell you how far you are from the park or things like that. It does have some really nice feature.
BRIAN NORTON: I know there are apps for your phone that are specifically for folks that are blind and visually impaired that allow for mapping. Like blind Square I’m not going to say this right because a mess it up every time. Ariadne GPS, Here, iMove, and AbleRoad are all GPS-like apps or locator apps. Tell me what’s around me. Specifically designed for folks who are blind or visually impaired.
BELVA SMITH: There is also a device called step here navigation system for the blind. I haven’t used that one much. It’s available at Maxi aids and is $150. I’m not sure, looking at the information, I’m not sure if it’s navigational as much as it is a tool to help a blind person navigate around specific hazards. It says that it alerts them if there are hazards and their location. For example, if they are walking down a busy downtown street and maybe there are some cones or something blocking the walk, it says it’s great for helping them identify where hospitals and stores and schools and stuff are. I don’t know. That might be something else worth looking at. It’s $150, Step Here, at MaxiAids.
BRIAN NORTON: Have you guys seen the commercials or Internet ads for the Toyota blade?
JOSH ANDERSON: Yes.
BRIAN NORTON: That looks so cool to me. Toyota is working on a navigational device that uses sonar, maybe some of the same types of technology that they are building into cars these days to help folks who are blind or visually impaired navigate their environment. I don’t know quite how it works if it is by vibrations, on your left or right , door back up your, I don’t know. Does anyone know how that works?
WADE WINGLER: I think you are right. I did one of the other shows on that technology. I think you are right. It’s using a combination of GPS and sonar and different things, then it does have a vibration or haptic interface that allows you to get some feedback from the device. It’s not commercially available. They are working on it. It’s still prototypical type of stuff.
BRIAN NORTON: It’s fun to see. There used to be something called the Intel reader about 8 to 9 years ago. It was the first time I had seen one of these big, Silicon Valley companies get into the market of assistive technology and try to do something. that was exciting to me. The same thing with this is now you have a billion-dollar company working on GPS stuff for folks who are blind or visually impaired. It can only just increase the availability and technology behind what’s in those types of devices to help people get around and be able to navigate their world. It’s super exciting.
BELVA SMITH: I think I want to say in the section, always orientation and mobility training is very important.
BRIAN NORTON: Never go without.
BELVA SMITH: I think it gets overlooked. I think individuals think that if they’ve got a Trecker breeze or an app on their phone, they don’t necessarily need the orientation and mobility. I think that’s incorrect.
***
WADE WINGLER: And now it’s time for the wildcard question.
BRIAN NORTON: Our next question is the wildcard question. That’s where Wade asks us an off-the-wall, fun question that we haven’t had any experience with. I don’t know necessarily if they are fun.
WADE WINGLER: I was going to say.
BRIAN NORTON: We are unprepared for these questions. Wade, what do you have for us today?
WADE WINGLER: Here is a question I’ve been thinking about. Belva is a little more prepared for this then you guys are.
BRIAN NORTON: That’s not fair.
BELVA SMITH: You need to go up to Wade’s office about 20 minutes before the show.
BRIAN NORTON: Did you ask him what his wildcard question is?
WADE WINGLER: We were looking at some nest cams in the agency here. bevel was asking some questions because I know she’s thinking about using the technology. Nest cam was purposely known as a drop cam which is the technology I started using several years ago as a baby monitor for my kids. it’s a Wi-Fi camera that you plug in and it does day vision and night vision and sound detection and all that kind of stuff. it’s technology that keeps getting better, more affordable, more robust. We were talking about cameras, also some of the doorbell system that alert you when somebody is winking your doorbell and allows you to turn on a camera and have an interaction with them. I want to ask you guys, are you using some of this technology? This all falls under the Internet of things. What are you funny with the technology? Either personal use or what you are finding with the consumer that you serve from a more assistive technology angle? This stuff is taking off everywhere. You can’t go to any sort of hardware superstore or a big box retailer and not see these things anymore. What are you guys doing with cameras and doorbells and those kinds of things for your house or those you serve?
BRIAN NORTON: At my house, we have two drop cams, one pointed towards the back door of the house and one pointed towards the front door of the house. We have motion sensors so it will email me or alert me on my phone if something moves or if it hears a sound. I use those a lot in my house to be able to know who is at the door before I get to the door or if my girls, if I’m not home, and I’m running a few minutes late, we have a little routine where they walk in the house and wave in front of it so it will alert me, I can turn it on and have a conversation with them. It’s a really simple, easy to use device. The cameras are pretty expensive, about $200. Then you actually have to pay a $10 per month substitution to store those videos. if you want to record the video and keep it on file for a while, you have to pay for that.
WADE WINGLER: It’s $10 a month for 10 hours and $30 per month for 30 hours. If you pay by the year, you get a discount.
BRIAN NORTON: I like the camera version of things. I always wonder what doorbells, do people ring doorbells? I don’t know if you have to activate the doorbell or if they are motion sensing.
BELVA SMITH: It’s my understanding with the ring doorbell, that’s the one we were considering. it’s my understanding that it is motion. It also has the ability to pick things up in the dark. I keep my porch light on all the time anyway. That’s my understanding. I have not used it and do not know anyone that has it. It’s got great reviews and everything we researched. If you purchase it and have difficulty getting it installed, they will actually send an installer to your home to install it for you. But it’s supposed to be really simple.
BRIAN NORTON: Do you know if it’s battery-operated? Is it electricity?
BELVA SMITH: There are two available. One of them does have to be hardwired, so that would be for someone who already has a doorbell like myself. Then there is one that is for a person who doesn’t have a doorbell and doesn’t have the wiring. That one would have to be battery operated.
BRIAN NORTON: I’ve always wondered, with our cameras, we keep them inside the house. they are not an outside camera, but there in our window pointing toward the doors. I just wonder what doorbells like that, would someone walk up and take it? Can they just take the doorbell away?
BELVA SMITH: The one that we are looking at is the hardwired one. It does have screws. They’re not going to be able to just come take it. Granted they could rip it off if they wanted to. We did see today that nest does have the outdoor cameras.
WADE WINGLER: They do. It’s the same price at $200.
BRIAN NORTON: I bought mine before they came out with those outdoor cameras.
JOSH ANDERSON: I was going to say I don’t have anything like that. I have a dog that barks every time somebody knocks. We’re kind of in the country.
BELVA SMITH: Josh is just going to unlock the front door on his house today. He hasn’t had a chance to think about it. He hasn’t had a chance to think about it, right?
WADE WINGLER: Just a few hours.
BRIAN NORTON: New house day.
JOSH ANDERSON: I’m very excited.
WADE WINGLER: That’s awesome. What about from a disability perspective or accessibility perspective? We’re using these things just for convenience and home security, but what do cameras like that and doorbells mean for folks with various kinds of disabilities?
BELVA SMITH: I think the ability with the ring, you can have a conversation with the person without ever going to open the door. I think there are advantages as well as disadvantages, whether you have a disability or don’t. I don’t know, again without having experienced it.
BRIAN NORTON: I’ve seen you folks use these types of technology, so if you have a home health aide that is coming over in the morning, you don’t have to be at the door to unlock it. You can be safe and secure in your home and they can knock to ring the doorbell, you can let them in the, those kinds of things using technology like that. I don’t know. Just a convenience, for me being here, I think it would be the same convenience for a person with a disability just knowing what’s going on in your home, to be able to see and communicate with people who are there when you can’t be there. I’m able to get into my car and drive around and get to places more easily than what a person in a wheelchair or other kinds of things are needing to do. If you’ve got people coming into your home and moving back and forth in these places, you can see them, carry a conversation on with them. I think it helps communication all the way around.
BELVA SMITH: I’m not sure how I feel about that as far as security because remember when we used to all have the answering machines at home? I never wanted to say hi, we are at home now. That’s like saying — same thing with a doorbell. Someone rings my doorbell, I don’t want to say I’m at work now, can you set the package down and leave. Nor do I want to say my hands are full with the baby, so I can’t get to the door, just go away.
BRIAN NORTON: But you say I’m not at home right now but I can see everything you’re doing so don’t touch my stuff.
WADE WINGLER: Isn’t that funny how the problem has gone away with cell phones and the fact that people don’t have home phones as much as they used to? You don’t know where I am.
BELVA SMITH: No one in my family has a landline. You have a landline?
BRIAN NORTON: It’s our main phone. It’s a voice over IP but it connects to the regular phone line. It’s Ooma, and it’s Voice over IP. We pay three dollars a month. It’s through Cosco, or at least that’s where we purchased it. I’m a loser, old-time loser.
WADE WINGLER: I do know some folks who have landline but they always say I don’t really use anymore. They keep it for an alarm system or some other technology. Less and less all the time.
BELVA SMITH: We had magicJack, and when it was up and we had to pay again, we were like forget it.
BRIAN NORTON: I am joining that world. I’ve cut the cord at my house so I don’t have cable. I’ve learned we can survive without cable. Maybe I’ll get to the point where I can cut the cord on my phone.
WADE WINGLER: You’ll get there.
JOSH ANDERSON: Get one of those nice antennas. one of the best $30 I ever spent.
WADE WINGLER: While we are talking consumer product stuff, Brian, can I hijack your show to do a quick commercial?
BRIAN NORTON: Sure.
WADE WINGLER: Assistive Technology Update is in its sixth year now and we are getting ready to record our annual Holiday Shopping Show. That’s a show that was cross broadcast across the show and assistive technology update last year. This year we will only be on Assistive Technology Update, but we are looking for your gift ideas for people with disabilities or users of assistive technology. First of all, it’s a ton of fun. several of us are around in the studio and talk about different gift ideas for folks with disabilities, some low tech, high tech, low-cost, high tech, all ages and disabilities. if you’ve got a special assistive technology on your shopping list or your wish list for Christmas this year, for the holidays, we would love to hear from you. we would love to have you call in and leave a voicemail so we can include your ideas on the show. Or email and treat us and let us know what your ideas and technicians are for holiday gifts. I think this is our fifth or sixth holiday shopping show. It’s a ton of fun. we received a lot of fun gift ideas but we love it when we hear from our audience members. You can call us at 317-721-7124. You can send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Or you can treat us at INDATA Project.
BRIAN NORTON: Or hashtag #ATFAQ.
WADE WINGLER: Or you could do it there and we would pick it up and pop it on the AT update show as well. Thanks for letting me steal your show.
BRIAN NORTON: No problem. Just to wrap up, I want to thank everybody here in the studio. Belva, thank you.
BELVA SMITH: Thanks guys.
BRIAN NORTON: Josh?
JOSH ANDERSON: Thanks.
BRIAN NORTON: Wade?
WADE WINGLER: Hey, hey, hey — wait, no this is the end of the show. Bye, bye, bye.
BRIAN NORTON: You can send us your questions by calling our listener line at 317-721-7124. Send us a tweet with the hashtag ATFAQ. Or email us at tech@eastersealsrossroads.org. We definitely want your questions and your feedback. if you’ve heard a question to that you’ve got some feedback for, please give us your response. We would love to have you be a part of the show. We’ll talk to you guys later.
WADE WINGLER: Information provided on Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions does not constitute a product endorsement. Our comments are not intended as recommendations, nor is our show evaluative in nature. Assistive Technology FAQ is hosted by Brian Norton; gets editorial support from Mark Stewart and Belva Smith; is produced by me, Wade Wingler; and receives support from Easter Seals Crossroads and the INDATA project. ATFAQ is a proud member of the Accessibility Channel. Find more of our shows at www.accessibilitychannel.com.
***Transcript provided by TJ Cortopassi. For requests and inquiries, contact tjcortopassi@gmail.com***
