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Panel: Brian Norton, Tracy Castillo, Belva Smith, Josh Anderson – Q1 – Transcription options for the classroom, Q2 – Voice-to-text for coding, Q3 – Apps for Executive Functioning, Q4 – Text Based Aug Comm Apps, Q5 – Smart Canes for the Blind, Q6 – Wildcard: Most reliable AT resources
————— Transcript Starts Here ———————
Brian Norton:
Welcome to ATFAQ, Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions with your host Brian Norton, director of assistive technology at Easterseals Crossroads. This is a show where we address your questions about assistive technology, the hardware, software, tools and gadgets that help people with disabilities lead more independent and fulfilling lives. Have a question you’d like answered on our show? Send us a tweet with the hashtag ATFAQ. Call our listener line at (317) 721-7124 or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. The world of assistive technology has questions and we have answers. And now let’s jump into today’s show.
Brian Norton:
Hello and welcome to ATFAQ episode 129. My name is Brian Norton and I’m the host of the show. Today we’re so happy to have you and taking some time to tune in with us this week. We have a great lineup of assistive technology questions for you today. But before we jump in to the questions, I just want to take a moment to go around the Zoom room here and introduce the folks who are on our panel. The first is Belva Smith. She is our vision team lead with our clinical assistive technology team. Belva, do you want to say hi?
Belva Smith:
Zoom greetings to everybody.
Brian Norton:
Excellent. Next is Tracy. Tracy is the INDATA program manager. Tracy, do you want to say hey?
Tracy Castillo:
Sure do. Hey everyone. It’s good to hear from you.
Brian Norton:
Excellent. And then Josh Anderson is our third panelist. He is the popular host of assistive technology update and also the manager of our clinical assistive technology team. Josh, do you want to say hey too?
Josh Anderson:
Hey, welcome back everybody.
Brian Norton:
Excellent. Excellent. And again, my name is Brian Norton, I’m host of the show. I’m the director of assistive technology here at Easterseals Crossroads, I’m with the INDATA project. And again, very happy that you’ve taken some time to tune in with us. Just want to take a moment here at the beginning of our show and talk about how our show works so that if we do have any new listeners, they can kind of get an understanding of how we go about what we do here on ATFAQ. So we come across various assistive technology related questions throughout the week and then we put those into a show and that’s really the whole purpose of the show. It’s questions and answers and we rely on you for questions.
Brian Norton:
And so we have a variety of ways for you to get us your questions. The first would be our listener line. That listener line is (317) 721-7124, or you can send us an email. That email addresses tech@eastersealscrossroads.org or send us a tweet with the hashtag ATFAQ, all great ways to get us your questions. What makes our show really helpful though is although we’re providing I would hope some good to questions, we also rely on your feedback. And so if you hear a question that you have some experience with or have some answers to, let us know. You can let us know in those three ways, our listener line, our email or send us a tweet with an answer. Reference the show number that you’re trying to help with and we’ll play that feedback on our next show.
Brian Norton:
So that’s a great way to be able to kind of give a well rounded answer to the questions that our people are sending in to us. If you’re interested in sharing our show with other folks, there’s a variety of ways to find it. You can find us on iTunes. You can go to our website, it’s atfaqshow.com. You can find us on Stitcher, the Google play store, really just anywhere you find podcasts, you’ll be able to look us up and find ATFAQ there. So without further ado, I want to just jump into our first question of the day and this question was from Rhonda. It came through email and here’s her question. She said, “We have a hearing impaired instructor starting at the university this fall. They use cart services as a student and would like to use it as an instructor as well.
Brian Norton:
As a student, a microphone is given to the instructor in each class so the cart writer can hear them clearly. As an instructor, it does not seem feasible to pass the mic around to various students wishing to make comments or ask questions. I feel like I’m in a box and need to think outside it. Are there options for this situation, something other than cart or passing microphones? The individual does not use sign language. Thanks for the ideas that you can share.” And so, I’ll go ahead and jump in on this question. Something I’ve been thinking about a lot, perhaps you might be able to, I know in our full meetings when we meet or let’s say six months ago when we used to all meet in the same room and we would have a couple of our staff members who were joining us remotely or virtually, and in that room, we would use omni-directional microphones.
Brian Norton:
So microphones that just don’t simply point in one direction towards the person who’s speaking. We used to use omni-directional microphones so that it could pick up basically sound from around the room and then feed that into the computer. And I’m wondering if there wouldn’t be an option to be able to use an omni-directional microphone in a situation like this that’s connected to the computer or to wherever the remote cart person, the cart writer is sitting, whatever computer they’re listening in on. And then they would be able to capture information from around the room instead of just whoever’s speaking at a given moment. And so again, it’s the difference between omni-directional or-
Tracy Castillo:
Hey Brian, do you remember what we also used to do during those full day trainings? We had those catch box microphones. I know they don’t want to pass them around in this, we’re in a different time now, but we would have the catch box microphone that we could actually throw it to each other, catch it and then speak into the microphone. I always thought that was pretty fun.
Brian Norton:
Yeah. That’s another good one to think about. Again, like you said, COVID’s kind of limited maybe what that might look like. Essentially what they are, there’s two kinds that I’ve seen. One is actually a ball and then one is a box. We have the catch boxes, if you go to catchbox.com. They’re kind of fun. They’re interactive. It’s really great for bigger groups of folks. They’re soft. But what happens when you throw the microphone, the microphone shuts off when it’s in the air. It’s got a gyroscope in it, so it can shut off the microphone until someone has it stationary sitting in front of them. And so what happens is as people have questions, they throw the box in and around the room to whoever has a question, they catch it, they speak into it and then therefore the cart writer is able to then hear what they might be able to say in this situation.
Brian Norton:
They’re soft, you’re not going to hurt people. It’s kind of a little bit like what we used to do in some of our elementary school days when you used to pass the ball around the group, and if you got the ball in your hands, you can talk. If you don’t have the ball on your hands, you don’t get to talk. So yeah, that’s definitely an option. That’s great. Catch box. Another option might be to use an app like Ava, ava.me is a website. And I know some of our folks on clinical have had some experience with this, but basically this allows, it’s an app on your phone. Everybody in the class would have to have the app installed on their phone.
Brian Norton:
And when they install it, they would be able to put their name on it. And so the person who is in the class would be able to basically as people speak, they would have to have that app and open throughout the class. And as they speak, little bubbles or speech bubbles will start popping up on the app as far as who’s talking and what’s being said. And so as the teacher’s talking, they’ll have a very long speech bubble because they’re giving the lecture. But then when a question comes from a student, another bubble will pop up there in the list and then populate with whatever that student may have asked.
Tracy Castillo:
That’s a good one. I had seen the Ava had been used in like two person conversations, but I hadn’t seen it in group conversations.
Belva Smith:
That would mean that everybody would have to have some sort of a smart device with that app. That might be a little challenging.
Brian Norton:
Yeah. It’s a little problematic. Yeah, you’re right. They would have to have a smartphone or a tablet that has the app installed. They’d have to have good wifi. It’s using artificial intelligence from what I understand. And so your recognition accuracy would be down, wouldn’t necessarily be as good as a live person who’s listening to the cart writer. So there’s definitely [crosstalk 00:08:56].
Josh Anderson:
I do not think Ava’s free.
Tracy Castillo:
Ava is free.
Josh Anderson:
Are you sure?
Tracy Castillo:
I have it on my phone.
Josh Anderson:
Okay. Okay.
Tracy Castillo:
I have it on my phone. You get so much free time with it and it’s quite a bit. I can search it really fast. But what I was wondering for people that don’t have like a smartphone, everybody in school should have at least have a computer. I wonder if it has a web based-
Josh Anderson:
$99 a month. Oh, I’m sorry.
Tracy Castillo:
Stop.
Josh Anderson:
Yeah. For the starter edition, it’s $100 a month from what I can find online.
Brian Norton:
Is that that computer software or is that the app itself?
Josh Anderson:
That’s Ava. That’s if you go to Ava on a computer, that’s what I bring up when I look at pricing.
Brian Norton:
Well, definitely something to think about and consider. Transcription and classes is not an inexpensive option. So it may be in line with what the pricing is elsewhere and so something to consider. Again, Ava, A-V-A.me is the website. So you can check them out. They’re pretty good app from what I’ve heard, and have had some good feedback on how that works and least small group environments, usually meetings, workplace meetings, those types of things. I’m not exactly sure how that would work in a classroom, but it is important to note that people would have to have their own device, whether that is a computer, a tablet or a smartphone. Something to think about there with that one.
Brian Norton:
I was also thinking just about classroom setup for folks. If you have a teacher and a student has questions, if you don’t want to pass around a microphone, if you don’t want a special app or if you don’t want to have to install omni-directional microphone, it’s something to consider for that teacher. And so that the cart transcription would be a better reflection of what’s being said in the classroom. You may also consider just having that teacher repeat questions and answers from the front of the class. They are already going to have the microphone. And so if a student raises their hand and asks a question, just repeat it. We do that in our full day trainings already. That seems to do a really good job for the folks who attend our meetings online as an option for them to be able to hear kind of really the whole show. So something to really consider there.
Belva Smith:
I do that sometimes Brian with my training. When I’m asked a question by the person that I’m working with, sometimes I’ll go ahead and just repeat the question back to him just to make sure that I fully understand it, to make sure we’re on the same page. And I find myself doing that a lot with my clients that might be both deaf and blind. So I think repeating the question is beneficial in more than one way just to help make sure that it’s clear communication.
Brian Norton:
You mean, yeah, clarity for the question. Am I understanding your question correctly kind of thing. So, no, that’s a good point there. So yeah, I mean, those are the main ways that I can see with a situation like this. Again, a lot of things, other folks may talk about Otter AI which is all these … there’s lots of … rev.com. There’s a lot of different artificial intelligence engines out there that is doing real time captioning. What I hear mostly from the folks who do live captioning where you have a real person listening into the conversation, mostly what I hear from them is that the artificial intelligence, the recognition accuracy is just not going to be as good and you miss some of the context in which the questions are asked. And so there are some drawbacks to that, but they are readily available.
Brian Norton:
Otter AI is free up to 600 minutes a month. And so something to think about there as well, depending on how much usage this would get in a classroom. And so I would love to open this up to other folks here who are listening into us. If you’ve had a similar situation or some experience or have some answers related to this question, let us know. We’d love to hear from you. You can give us a call on our listener line. That’s (317) 721-7124 or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. We’d love to hear from you. Thanks.
Brian Norton:
So our next question is I recently came across your name from a contact in the accessibility space, and I thought I’d reach out to ask about whether you or your team have any familiarity with successful voice to text coding solutions. Internally, we have a number of use cases whereby standard voice detects technology is not sufficient for software engineers when they are primarily coding as their role. I’d be curious to know if in this area you have had any success with and if so, I’d love to connect and learn more. So really it’s about, I believe the questions mostly centered on if I’m a coder, can I use voice input software to help me code? And so I tend to think it doesn’t lend itself well to that because of all of the characters and symbols and syntax that goes into coding. Josh, you were going to say something.
Josh Anderson:
Oh no, I was going to kind of agree with you. So I guess it kind of completely and totally depends on why the person is using text to speech. I mean, are they using it because that’s their only access method for the computer? In which case then I guess it’s probably easier than trying to a head mouse or anything like that. But anytime we’ve worked with coders in the past, a lot of that redundant code, depending on the program, you’re only putting in a few things anyway, and it usually kind of fills it in for you. So if it doesn’t have that, then like a text expansion software, something like, I can’t remember. Text expander is the one on Mac and Phrase Expander, I think they have on Windows. And there’s another version I believe that’s free or low cost, phrase … No, not Phrase Expander. I just said that. Word predictor or something.
Brian Norton:
Yeah. Phrase Expander I think is the … Word Expander is the one you’re talking about.
Josh Anderson:
That’s right. That’s right. And it’s free or lower kind of costs, but it doesn’t give you as much. But with all those, you type two, three letters and like the semi colon and it’s going to fill in well as much stuff as you need. And if you’re writing code a lot of stuff’s redundant, you’re going to be doing it over and over again. But again, if the person can’t physically access the keyboard, that could really cut down on them being able to use that. There’s also a macro keyboards. So keyboards where one button does a whole string of things.
Josh Anderson:
Also, if you’re using text to speech, if you’re using Dragon, you can actually set up macros in that too. So that if I say code four, it can fill in 25 pieces of text right in there or something of that sort. Or it can go down and click a button and do 10 different kinds of things and I can build those in as well. So those are all maybe ways to do it. Again, like you said Brian, it’s hard to do 000:143 and actually have any kind of voice recognition software get that right on a regular basis.
Brian Norton:
Yeah, I would just assume things would not come out exactly what you want unless you’re doing like what you described with Dragon. And I believe Dragon professional now individual is kind of where we steer most of our folks to and you could create great text macros all day. If you’re using some sort of emulator or scripting engine, you might also be able to create with the professional version, you can actually just do keyboard macros or screen sequencing. I don’t know if that’s the right terminology for it, but making your mouse go different places on the screen to click here, click there, and you can kind of record a whole sequence of those types of things for certain instances. And again, it’s all about that redundant stuff, right? So making sure that as a coder, you’re not having to do a hundred different instances of the same line of code across several different areas.
Brian Norton:
You can just simply hit three or four keystrokes or say something very quickly to be able to put in a whole bunch of code related to whatever service you’re trying to kind of create within your coding. And so, yeah, I don’t know. We’ve never really tackled. I think as far as we’ve gone as a team and you can correct me if I’m wrong on the clinical side of things, but I think as far as we’ve gone, it’s really relying on those macro keyboards, text expansion software to speed people up. Because usually, Josh has you indicated, usually within whatever script engine you’re working in, it already kind of does that a little bit. You do a couple of keystrokes and it throws a whole line of code in there. And so, yeah, I don’t know. Any other thoughts on that?
Belva Smith:
Well, the only thing that I’m thinking is it doesn’t really matter which way you’re going to go there. To develop the database of the code that you’re going to need, it’s going to be kind of time consuming, whether you’re creating the macros for the keyboard or whether you’re creating the macros for the Dragon naturally speaking. And it’s going to be an ongoing database that’s going to have to continually be updated, I would assume. So it may be, it’s one of those situations where you put the time in in the beginning and then the payoff comes once you’ve got that database going, I guess, because then you can quickly do things.
Belva Smith:
But I can say in the entire time that I’ve been doing this kind of work, I have only had one person that had some difficulty using the keyboard who was a programmer. And our work around for that was to use a mouth stick and bring the keyboard up closer to him. And Brian, you may recall who I’m speaking of. It was many, many moons ago, but he was unable to use his hands, but he was able to get done what he needed to get done with a one handed keyboard and the mouth stick and just having it closer to him.
Brian Norton:
Yup. Yup. I do remember that situation. Yeah. And that’s definitely true.
Josh Anderson:
And you bring up a really good point though, because I don’t even think the individual may just have to do things one handed, so all kinds of one handed keyboards. And some of them, they make even programmable. So if you’re only using for coding, you’re probably not using every single darn key. So you can just program it for the ones that you actually use and might be quicker than most of the other folks. I mean, that’s one of those accommodations that may end up being something that everyone could use. But yeah, and there’s all kinds of one handed keyboards or small form factor keyboards you can access mostly with one hand.
Brian Norton:
Yeah, this is good. I mean, this is a interesting question. It’s something that we have, I believe talked about before on ATFAQ at different times and it’s a question that’s continually asked. I mean, computers are kind of where things are headed. And so computer programming, coding, and all of those kinds of things, that’s a field that’s going to be here indefinitely. And you’re going to have folks with disabilities wanting to get into that field and having difficulty with syntax and the very intricate nature of you leave a comma, you leave a colon, you leave a period out of something, it’s not going to work. And so to go back through that, especially if you don’t have keyboard access is going to be really challenging.
Brian Norton:
And so voice input in that arena would be really neat. I’ve just never found something that works fast enough or proficient enough for it to be real viable option. And that’s why we’ve always kind of steered folks towards those macro keyboards and other kinds of things. So anyways, I’d love to hear from folks who are listening. If you’ve run into a situation like this, give us a call. I’d love to hear your feedback. You can give us a call on our listener line. This is (317) 721-7124 or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Love to hear from you. Thanks.
Brian Norton:
Alright, so our next question is I’m looking for apps to help with executive functioning, specifically with planning and prioritization, any thoughts? I just want to add some context to the question a little bit and maybe not context is the best word for it, but I think when you start talking about apps, providing some context about where you will be using those apps is really helpful in kind of determining which app would work best for somebody. So for instance, if you’re using something at school, it may look completely different than the app you may use in a workplace. And so providing that extra context about where you’re going to use those apps are going to be helpful because those tasks at school are different than tasks would be at work. They may look completely different. And I know in regards to planning and prioritization, there are a lot of different school apps.
Brian Norton:
There are a lot of different work apps and they’re very specific to those types of settings. So if you’re thinking about school-based apps, things like if you’re a younger child, something like Choiceworks which is a picture based calendar and it provides some prompting back and forth about different things that you’re going to do throughout the day, some sequencing there. iStudiez Pro, iHomework, Classroom Manager, My Homework. Those are all apps for maybe a little bit older person who’s going to school, maybe a young adult who’s going off to college or is in high school. They allow you to put your whole agenda and syllabus in for a particular class. And then throughout the semester, it’ll bring up prompts for different types of things and for the homework that you put in there. And so there’s a whole lot of school-based apps.
Brian Norton:
Again, iStudiez Pro, iHomework, Classroom Manager, My Homework, would be options in the school environment. However, I know here at work, Josh, and I know you have some experience and maybe you can kind of shout out or give a shout out to, To Do List. That’s an app I use quite frequently and I just find it super helpful.
Josh Anderson:
I find it super helpful and just super easy because I can just, anytime I think of something, like say I get an email while we’re doing this that I can’t answer. I can just go in To Do List on my phone, my computer, my tablet hit plus and hit return so and so’s email. I can put TOM after it, it’ll put it on tomorrow or WED, it puts it on Wednesday. It’s just really easy. And I get by with the free version, I don’t even pay for it. You do get a few more kind of cool features with the paid version, but I’ve never missed them. You can make labels and some other kinds of nice things. You can look back and see what you’ve actually done, I guess, which is nice because once I complete something, it just disappears. But then again, that kind of helps and you don’t get as overwhelmed or waste a whole lot of time kind of looking through those things. But no, I find To Do List great. But there’s also a Microsoft To Do, which used to be Wonderlist.
Josh Anderson:
WorkFlowy I know a lot of people like. There’s like OmniFocus, which is a huge one that’s really got a lot of planning and stuff in there. But a lot of these have at least a free version or a free trial. So I say if these are something that you think, and even with the school ones, a lot of them have at least a free trial or a free version. Download them all and try them out. You’re going to find one that you like probably or one that you like more than the others. Or if it comes down to you like them all about the same, then just go with whichever one’s free or cheaper. But none of them are really that expensive I don’t think in the long run. It’s just a lot of them I know To Do List is a monthly fee I think that you pay yearly. Microsoft To Do I think is free. It’s very close to To Do List. It’s just a little bit different. I don’t like it quite as much.
Tracy Castillo:
So how are these different from like reminders and such because they’re talking about planning and prioritizing. Does it help you prioritize or does it just give you prompts? Would that be the same as just reminders?
Josh Anderson:
So with these you kind of, it’s more like to do list kind of thing. Then you can do priorities, you can set party one, two, three, or just no real priority on them. So it’s a little bit different, I guess, than reminders. But yeah, you’re right. You could easily use some of the builtin stuff, reminders, notes, things like that.
Belva Smith:
Is Evernote free or do they charge for that now?
Josh Anderson:
There is a free version.
Belva Smith:
I was going to say because I was looking on this website because there’s two websites I was going to mention. Bridging apps, that’s a good place to go and look for different apps. And then I found this N-E-U-R-O-D-E-V-E-L-O-P.com full of lots of different apps. And one of them that they recommended for executive functioning is the Evernote app, because it does allow you to do your to do list, but then you can also do voice reminders and you can search them. So it sounds like it’s got a lot of different features with it. And then it’s got Evernote peak, which is also like Evernote, but I guess it’s more of a learning design designed for the iPad. So I think that’s important too to know what device they’re using. And I will say that our personal assistants can be great to help with this.
Tracy Castillo:
Belva, I was going to go there when I go there. [crosstalk 00:27:04]. But yeah, I use my personal assistant all the time and I’m doing the reminders. And I do kind of mess up when like set me a reminder at 5:00 o’clock to dah, dah, dah. Well, what do you want to be notified? Well, I want you to tell me … and so at 5:00 o’clock and I’ll say, I want you to tell me …
Belva Smith:
Yeah, you got to get a little experience with getting your assistant to give you the information the way that you want it. It’s not like you can just speak to it the way that you think you can, at least that’s what I’ve noticed. But any one of the assistants, whether it’s on your tablet, whether it’s on your computer or it’s its own little standalone device, they’re great for keeping yourself organized as well as remembering. Like for example, I go to Sam’s and sometimes get these large family size packages of like chicken and stuff and I never can remember, oh shoot, what temperature am I supposed to cook this on or how long am I supposed to cook it? Well, my A-L-E-X-A, she has all the cooking directions for all those. I just say, “Hey, remind me how to fix the Chinese chicken.” And it’ll pop up and tell me, “Oh, you want to cook that at 425 for 35 minutes.” And I’m like, “Okay.”
Tracy Castillo:
So you don’t have to say, “I want you to bring me up a recipe for chicken.” You can just-
Belva Smith:
No, no. Because I take, when I get the package, I’ll read those directions to her and say, “Remember, this is how we cook this Chinese chicken or this is how we cook these corn dogs.” And when I ask for it, she just tells me.
Tracy Castillo:
Well, I didn’t know this could do that. I was adding more stuff to her.
Belva Smith:
So I think this is kind of a question that we get frequently is what apps, what apps? And it’s so hard to know what … and it can be so overwhelming to try to research apps because there’s billions of apps. But I’m starting to wonder, especially with all the different learning styles that we’re all being faced with now, if eventually all apps … well, how about we got a puppy dog in the room. But I’m starting to wonder if they’ll all start to offer maybe like a seven day trial or something for free before they actually make us pay for them. Because even though they can be cheap, who wants to spend two or $3 a hundred times to find the app that really does work? And I mean, there must be a way that they could let us try it for like seven days and then pay for it or just make it quit working.
Josh Anderson:
Yeah. And I think a lot of them are kind of going that way, especially like the subscription based ones. They’re 14 days for free or something like that or like I said with To Do List, I just use the stripped down model and it has everything I need. I mean, there’s not much to it. You put in things, you assign them to days and I just keep it open all the time and look at it and check things off.
Brian Norton:
Yeah, I think you’re right with apps. There’s a whole lot. I mean, we can give you options as far as apps are concerned. However, there are going to be apps that we haven’t experienced before, that we don’t have any experience with and that may be just as good as the ones that we mentioned. I mean, we have a good working knowledge of apps that have been tried and true and work in different situations and we’re going to share that with folks, but you’re right. There are lots and lots of apps and depending on what your need is, what your preferences are, one app is going to be better for you than the other and it may take a couple of swings with the bat to be able to get to the one that you want. Right.
Brian Norton:
And so you’re right. I think most apps do have a free version that you can at least try it for a few days before you have to purchase it. But again, all of these different apps or different ways in this specific situation to kind of address planning and prioritization. And so just something to think about and consider with that.
Belva Smith:
And I think the good old fashioned way of writing things down. I mean, if it’s possible for you to write things down-
Josh Anderson:
That works for a while until you [crosstalk 00:31:43].
Belva Smith:
I remember when you showed up with your pencil and your notebook to start taking notes. And I’m like, “Oh my gosh.” But for some people that’s the tried and true measure that really works for them.
Josh Anderson:
And you know that Wade and Brian both made fun of me for doing that and now they both take nothing but handwritten notes. It’s the [crosstalk 00:32:05] ever. And I don’t because I have notebooks and notebooks of stuff in here that I’ve never looked at again.
Belva Smith:
And I’m finding that that’s true for me, Josh. If I do, I have notebooks and notebooks of stuff that’s written down and it’s very interesting to flip back six months and start flipping through the pages and think, wonder what I was thinking when I wrote this, because I take terrible notes. I’m the worst note taker.
Josh Anderson:
[crosstalk 00:32:28] too. And a lot of times I’ll flip back through and be like, “Oh, if I would’ve had this last week when I really needed it.”
Belva Smith:
Oh, that would have been really helpful. Yeah. If only I could search this quicker.
Tracy Castillo:
I think also guys, the process of actually just writing the note down helps imprint that in your mind
Belva Smith:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Especially for kids. Especially for kids.
Josh Anderson:
Yeah, it really seems to for kids. And Brian, one other thing that can kind of help, they said they’re specifically looking for planning and prioritization. So I mean, we’re just kind of assuming that that’s more kind of staying on task, keeping up with other things. But I mean, mind mapping could also be something if they’re trying to plan something maybe a little bigger, kind of a bigger project or a bigger thing that they might need to do. And with that, there are so many mind mapping programs, apps out there. There’s online ones that are free, check them all out. What is it? Mind Node I think is a really good one. I can’t remember. I know there’s a free trial version of it you can do. But there’s other ones, try them out, see what kind of features they have if that’s something the person also needs help with. Some of them are really robust and do a ton of work. Some of them just do a little bit, but it just kind of depends on what you need.
Brian Norton:
Right. And I think that goes back to preferences really. Brainstorming, if your preference is visualization and you want to see things, brainstorming, mind mapping is maybe an option to look at. If you’re comfortable with pen and paper and you’re a kinesthetic learner where you get your hands on stuff and be able to just the action, like you were talking Tracy about writing something out, that is a great way to learn. And it’s a great way to not just learn, but kind of get it into your longer term memory. It’s just the kinesthetic part of actually writing it out as part of your to do list is going to help you remember that down the road and so certainly that’s a piece of it.
Brian Norton:
And so again, it goes back to preferences for me a lot is what are your preferences? There’s a lot of different apps that’ll do a lot of different things. What type of environment are you going to be using this app in? How’s that going to look and then just kind of go from there. So I want to kind of just open this up to our listeners. If you have run across apps that specifically address the area of planning or prioritization, let us know what your thoughts are. Give us a call on our listener line. That’s (317) 721-7124 or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Love to hear from you. Thanks.
Brian Norton:
Alright. So our next question is I’m looking for a low cost text-based augmentative communication app for my iPad. It’s for a gentleman who works in a retail environment and needs to communicate basic information to consumers and to his employer. And so actually, we have someone on our staff, his name is Craig Burns. I had a conversation with him just specifically about this question because there are a lot of text-based aug comm apps out there. In fact, there’s a lot of augmentative communication apps, whether it’s text-based or picture based, there’s a ton of those available for tablets, smartphones, those kinds of mobile devices that are out there. And he gave me a list of some useful ones and we’ll kind of talk a little bit about those. And so Verbally is one. I actually have that on my iPad.
Brian Norton:
I’ve had it on there for a long time. It is free. They have a free version. They also have a pay for version. That pay for version Is around $99. And essentially with Verbally, what you do is you get a keyboard that you can type out what you want to say to somebody. It’ll also give you an area to be able to save commonly used phrases. So in this particular situation, if you’re needing to communicate the same basic information over and over and over again to consumers and to his employer, perhaps Verbally would be a great option because you can save phrases to it. It also tries to do a little bit of word prediction based on what you’re typing. So you can choose words off of a list that’ll appear. It works pretty well. So Verbally is one.
Brian Norton:
Proloquo for text is a little bit more expensive. I don’t think there’s a free version of it. However, again, type in what you want to say, press up there where the words are located, it’s going to go ahead and speak that text. Assistive Express is another one. And then Spoken. Spoken is about $99 a year. Another good augmentative communication app, Vocable. Vocable I guess is what it’s called. That’s another one. And then there’s another one called Speech Assistant AAC. I would say for all augmentative communication devices or apps, one thing that we have noted and that we do within our clinical program to address this area of need is we always work with a certified augmentative communication specialist as we steer people towards apps to make sure that it goes a little bit just beyond, here’s a cool app that you can press a couple of buttons and get texts to speak, right?
Brian Norton:
It has to match up with the person’s abilities, be understandable. They need to be able to access the full app, making sure that range of motions there for folks. And they’re looking for something that’s going to really best compliment whatever speech the current user already has. And so something to consider with that is involving someone with some experience in augmentative communication. And we’re just lucky here at Easterseals Crossroads and through the INDATA project at the agency we’re located within has a program or has an augmentative communication department. And so we’ve got someone who’s very familiar with apps and dedicated devices, speech devices for folks and we can kind of really steer them towards the right ones. But look to involve a professional when necessary and when applicable.
Josh Anderson:
Brian, another one that I know Craig’s used this in the past is Flip Writer. I know it’s available on iOS. I don’t know if it’s on all the other ones, but it’s essentially you can type in your information and it actually up upside down on the other side. So if you want to talk to somebody and you don’t want to have it actually speak out, but then you can also just tap the screen and it’ll say anything that you write on there too. But it does word prediction and all that kind of parts also.
Brian Norton:
I think that would be kind of neat to be able to type in and then turn it around. Like most of the time you’re turning it around to show somebody or having it speak out loud. And in a retail environment, that’s going to be distracting to other customers and maybe [crosstalk 00:39:01].
Josh Anderson:
Yeah, so you can say, “That’s on aisle six or how can I help you?” Or something and have that just show up.
Belva Smith:
So I missed the first part of the question, but we’re talking that he’s going to be using an iPad, right?
Brian Norton:
Yup.
Belva Smith:
Okay. So BuzzCards could be helpful in this situation too and that is free. Yeah. And that is free. And it does not speak them or speak whatever you’ve typed, but then that way they could, for those repeated questions, they could just have their card ready to go. And for the new off the wall questions, they can quickly type it and then turn it around and share it.
Josh Anderson:
Yep. That’s true.
Tracy Castillo:
Belva, did you get my notes?
Belva Smith:
Oh, is that where you were going? I’m sorry.
Tracy Castillo:
Yeah, that’s okay. I was waiting. I should have sent it faster. No, you know what else you could use? You could just use the built in stuff, always backing into the back of built in things. And if you have an iPad, you could probably bring up your notes and you would not even have to, I think you can draw on your notes now. They’re allowing you to draw within your notes. So if you could just, if you had your pencil, you could just write the answer out real fast and show it to them.
Belva Smith:
Yeah. But have you tried doing that? Because I find writing on the iPad, I’m very sloppy at it. Especially if I don’t have the pencil to try to use my finger-
Tracy Castillo:
And then [inaudible 00:40:23] are not teaching it in school anymore and they’re not going to let you learn cursive.
Belva Smith:
Right. But a lot of the shops when we used to be able to actually go out and go shopping would be using their iPad as their registered system. And they would just turn it around and have you sign with your finger. Well, I’m going to tell you there isn’t anybody alive that could read my signature written with my finger, but-
Tracy Castillo:
You actually write your name?
Belva Smith:
I think you’re right.
Josh Anderson:
I just sign on mine Tracy.
Belva Smith:
Right? I think you’re right, Tracy. I think there are some built in options that would work. And then anything that’s free, it’s worth trying. I really I’m a big fan of the BuzzCards.
Tracy Castillo:
I like them too. I think I was introduced to those, someone was talking about going to a coffee store and just … If you ordered the same thing all the time, you would just have a card made out that says I want this type of coffee and you just touch that and you can just show the person. And then the thing is especially if you’re having an iPad, but it would be large enough, you wouldn’t really actually have to give your device to somebody. I always thought that’s awkward when you have to hand over your device.
Belva Smith:
No, what I would recommend for this individual without even knowing all of the important information though is I would recommend that they have some sort of a shoulder strap for their iPad where they can just like do what they need to do and then flip it up because you don’t want to be handing your device to someone in any situation. But now with the COVID and everything else, keeping your hands on your device and other people’s off is kind of important.
Josh Anderson:
And Belva, kind of going along with that, something they might also want to think of, if they do want it to talk to the other people as opposed to having someone else read it, some sort of speaker or amplifier might be needed just because if you’re in a … I guess there’s no such thing as a busy retail environment anymore. But if you’re in a retail environment or someplace at work where there might be other sounds, just to speak near the iPad might not be enough for them to be able to hear what it’s saying.
Brian Norton:
Oh yeah, that’s really great. That’s a good, good point. I wasn’t thinking necessarily of BuzzCards or Flip Writer and those kinds of things, but you’re right. In this situation, we use it all the time for folks who are deaf and hard of hearing or who have other needs and it would, they capture commonly used phrases and you just pull out your device, choose which one you want to show and just hang it up in front of somebody and it works. It works really well. So great points. I’d love to open this up to our listeners and find out if they’ve had any experience with this specifically, again, looking for text-based low cost aug comm apps. If you have another one that you’ve come across, would love to hear about that. You can give us a call on our listener line. That’s (317) 721-7124 or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. Love to hear from you. Thank you. Our next question is from Dan and this is a voicemail. So I’m going to go ahead and play that for us. And so here we go.
Audio:
Hello there team. My name is Dan from Garden Grove, California. And this question is for the ATFAQ show. My question is what’s going on with his smart cane market? Any new development for the smart cane? I’m interested in maybe buying one, but please tell me what’s going on with the market and while you’re at it, please name the product that’s usable right now, because according to my understanding, there’s not a whole lot of technological development as far as the cane is concerned. That’s all. Enjoying your show as always. Thank you team. Stay safe.
Tracy Castillo:
Wow.
Brian Norton:
Yeah. Thank you Dan for chiming in. That’s excellent. Smart canes.
Tracy Castillo:
Yeah. Dan from California, all the out there. Wow, that’s nice. Hey, you know what? I had a phone call from a lady that was needing something like this. It was a WeWALK smart cane. She called us up and asked if we had one. So I ended up putting one in our lending library. We have a lending library that’s online that you can check out things. If you live in the state of Indiana, you can check out our lending library. If you’re in another state, you can go to Eastersealstech/states and you can look up there your lending library for your state. And so this WeWALK cane, I know a little bit of stuff about it. It sends vibrations and it has like an ultrasonic sensor on the front of it. I think it also connects to an app that’s connected to your phone. You can have an iPhone or Android device. Have you heard about this, Josh?
Josh Anderson:
Yeah, I have. In fact, we actually had a couple of the makers of it on assistive technology update back in February. I believe if you go back and that’s episode 457. [inaudible 00:45:39] a couple of folks from WeWALK on. But yeah, so it’s your standard cane, but at the top it’s got a much larger handle that can actually give you audio feedback. So it can tell you not just what the cane can touch, but also what’s kind of in the area around you. So if you think of some of the other apps that kind of use that, I don’t know exactly the technical term, but it’s like echolocation where it kind of knows where some of those things are. But then it can also connect to your apps on your phones to tell you that you need to turn left in 20 feet. It can actually sit there and the cane can tell you that so you’re not holding onto your cane and a phone and all these other kinds of devices at the same time.
Josh Anderson:
And I just happened to look at it. It looks like they’re about to have a newer version come out, a special edition with just better audio experience, that’s lighter weight and enhanced durability. So looks like there is a new one. But as far as other smart canes, I’m not really aware of any other ones. The cane’s the cane. It was kind of the same thing forever then they made the foldable one, then it kind of stopped. But the WeWALK is I think about the only really smart cane that I’ve seen out there, but I could definitely be wrong. It happens once or twice [crosstalk 00:46:52].
Brian Norton:
I think there’s companion devices to canes, not [crosstalk 00:46:58].
Belva Smith:
Like Sunu band.
Brian Norton:
Exactly right. Yeah. That’s kind of what I was thinking too.
Belva Smith:
And I will tell you, I’ll be the negative Nancy here. The feedback that I’ve heard from individuals who have actually tried the WeWALK, it only identifies or it only captures information that’s like waist high. So if there’s a tree stump or something at your feet level, if your cane doesn’t pick that up, this device isn’t going to pick it up either. So tripping can still be a problem or bumping into things can still be a problem if they’re not above the waist area. Also, I think it’s interesting that you said you just discovered that there’s a new version coming, because it does connect with the app on your smartphone and it uses Google maps. And I’ve heard people say that the information was really hard to get as you’re walking down a busy sidewalk or a noisy hallway and there’s noises going on around you, but I’m guessing that that probably has to do with how you’re listening. Are you listening with something in your ear or are you just trying to hear it from your device or I don’t know, does it have the sound actually coming out of the cane, Tracy?
Josh Anderson:
It does. It actually does. Yup.
Belva Smith:
So perhaps they’re putting a better speaker in it or something. And also when it first came out, it was terribly expensive. Considering you can get a white cane for free or you could pay $400 for what they call a smart cane. But I think the price has come down tremendously.
Tracy Castillo:
When I was at ATIA, I saw them also there. And forgive me if I’ve got this mixed up, you don’t have to have the cane that it comes with. You can attach the handle to another cane maybe.
Josh Anderson:
I believe so. Now I don’t know if that’s changed or not, but I think originally you could connect it to a different, but I think it came with one or two white canes with it. So you kind of adjust the size or when they first came out, I have to go back and actually listen to the show. I think you can get different sizes too because especially with canes, we’re not all the same height. So some folks need a little bit longer, a little bit shorter.
Belva Smith:
Actually, it does kind of look like it’s a device that connects to the top of the cane.
Josh Anderson:
Yeah, it does, doesn’t it?
Belva Smith:
Yeah. What’s the one like that we got in the library, Tracy? Did it come with a white cane?
Tracy Castillo:
There’s two pieces in it. Yeah. There’s like a, you know those little sweepers you used to get, I forget what they’re called, little handheld vacuum cleaners, that’s what it kind of reminds me of.
Belva Smith:
Yeah, that’s what it looks like. Yeah.
Josh Anderson:
Dust buster?
Tracy Castillo:
Dust buster. It’s a little dust buster. Well, it’s a little smaller than that. The handle is, but that’s pretty much the shape of it. Yeah. It’s in the lending library. You hadn’t checked it out yet, Belva? No?
Belva Smith:
No.
Tracy Castillo:
Did you know it was there?
Belva Smith:
No. And I think … no, actually I did know it was there because I remember Josh telling me that he was going to be interviewing the developers and that we were going to be getting one and I didn’t rush to get it because at that time I still thought it was $400, but it looks like now it’s more like $200, but I didn’t rush to get it because it was $400. And because I’ve used things like the Sunu band and stuff like that and I haven’t had a good experience with them. So I wasn’t that excited. I kind of wanted to wait and let other people try it and see what they think.
Josh Anderson:
And it looks like we can see here, you can preorder the new one and it ends up being $449.
Belva Smith:
Okay. So see it is a $400 cane. [crosstalk 00:51:04] got to have your smart device.
Josh Anderson:
Yup. And that is for preorder. If you buy it after the preorder, it may even be more expensive, but it does say it can come with a 54 or 59 inch long cane. You just specify when you purchase on which size you want.
Belva Smith:
And I want to say too that most of our situations are our vocational rehabilitation cases, and I think it would be kind of hard to justify this versus just the standard white cane.
Josh Anderson:
And because we’re all not ONM instructors anyway.
Belva Smith:
Exactly, exactly.
Brian Norton:
Well, hey, I would love to just open this up to folks. If you have some experience with smart canes or companion devices like the Sunu band or other types of technology that can assist as you navigate and do orientation mobility with white canes, love to hear from you about what your experience is. And if you can give us a call on our listener line, that’s (317) 721-7124 or send us an email at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org. We’d love to hear from you. And now it’s time for the wild card question. Alright. So our next question is the wildcard question. And this is where Belva has a question for us that we haven’t had any time to prepare for. And so Belva, what do you got for us today?
Belva Smith:
So I just thought we would take a minute to let everybody tell us at least two or more if you’ve got more on the top of your head of what your most reliable resources are when you get because we do, we always get these AT questions as we go about our days and our weeks. So when someone asks you a question that you don’t have an answer for, tell us one or two or three or four places that you go to get good information.
Brian Norton:
So I’ll just jump in on that one. So for me, I go to, I’m a part of several different Facebook groups of AT professionals. And so I can post a question in those groups on Facebook, get some pretty good feedback, but then I also rely on teammates. You guys, other folks on our team just bouncing around questions. I’ll just send out an email to say, hey, I got a call from so-and-so or an email from so-and-so, this is the question, any feedback? And undoubtedly, by the end of the day, I’ve got several different really good suggestions pulled together from what folks contribute. And so usually Facebook groups that I’m a part of and then just my team.
Josh Anderson:
So I got to kind of agree. The team’s the big one. I mean, I kind of ask and I mean, a lot of times people hit reply all, so you guys know you get quite a few answers on stuff especially if somebody reaches out and need some help with somebody at work or things like that or I just can’t quite fix anything. Other places, if it’s apps, AppleViz, BridgingApps are great places to go get information. I use them a whole heck of a lot. A lot of times I’ll go to the manufacturer’s websites are usually pretty helpful. A lot of them even have training like podcasts on stuff nowadays, which is really nice and really truly helpful. So I’d say those are probably my big ones. And if I really have absolutely no idea, Google, and then just go down the rabbit hole of hoping I find good information and not just some person spouting off online, but a little bit of both.
Tracy Castillo:
I don’t have to go anywhere. I know everything. Next question.
Josh Anderson:
Hey Tracy, good to have you on the show.
Belva Smith:
And what you don’t know, you pretend you know, right?
Tracy Castillo:
I do. No, I use my teammates. I go to my team mates a lot, especially if I can find them in the office. Anyhow, and I google a lot. I google a lot of stuff. And then I also go to our website, Eastersealstech.com, and you can find all our resources there.
Belva Smith:
So of course for me, it depends on the type of question, but Brian, I’m very shocked to hear that your number one answer was Facebook and that’s primarily because I don’t even use Facebook. So to think of it as a tool or a resource, it’s kind of shocking to me. But my-
Josh Anderson:
Like 70% of Americans get all their news from Facebook now.
Belva Smith:
Right, exactly.
Tracy Castillo:
I am on a couple of Facebook pages that I get information from.
Belva Smith:
I primarily use YouTube and Google. And then also my tech guy, Leo LaPorte, even though he doesn’t necessarily do assistive technology stuff. If it’s a tech question, then I can go get his answer and then try to figure out how the technology could be applied to whatever his answer might be. But I too Josh do go to the vendors often directly with my question and I love it when they have an answer, but sometimes they don’t and they have to go elsewhere as well. And teammates, I think having a large group of professionals like we have to depend on in your pocket is really helpful. But if you’re a user often, you don’t have that to rely on. And I think that being very proficient with Google and YouTube is something that, it’s a skill that we all want to develop and make ourselves as good at it as we can, because whether you’re a student or a professional, I think those two tools can pretty much teach you or tell you about just about anything. So yeah, that’s what I do. And Facebook, that’s interesting.
Brian Norton:
Here’s the other thing I typically would do too, is I maybe do this more often than anything else is really as I think about it, I simply go out and I pull out the device itself and I start playing with it. I mean, there’s no better way than get some hands on experience with it and dig into the menus and software. We had a question come in this week about a braille embosser and some translation software. Well, I downloaded it. I downloaded the software from the manufacturer and I’ve just been messing around with it these days. And so just something to do and play with. And so certainly something to think about and work with.
Brian Norton:
Excellent. Well, hey, thank you guys for the show and for answering those questions. I want to give you guys an opportunity to say goodbye to our listeners. And so Tracy, do you want to say sayonara?
Tracy Castillo:
Sayonara? No. I don’t want to leave. Thanks for having me, Brian.
Brian Norton:
Excellent. And then Belva.
Belva Smith:
Thanks everybody. We’ll see you again soon.
Brian Norton:
And Josh.
Josh Anderson:
Sayonara folks.
Brian Norton:
Excellent. If you guys have questions, don’t hesitate to give us a call. You can give us a call on our listener line. That’s (317) 721-7124. Send us a tweet with the hashtag ATFAQ or email is at tech@eastersealscrossword.org. Without your questions, we don’t have a show. So be a part of it. Love to hear from you. Take care, have a good one guys. Bye-bye.
Speaker 4:
And it seems like every week we have at least one blooper. So here you go.
Belva Smith:
Okay, that sounds great. We’ll bring this topic up in three years.
Josh Anderson:
Yeah, but I do have the right question though. So that’s something. Yeah, what’s that weird noise?
Brian Norton:
Mic testing [inaudible 00:58:56]. Does it really sound fun?
Speaker 4:
Information provided on Assistive Technology FAQ does not constitute a product endorsement. Our comments are not intended as recommendations nor is our show evaluative in nature. Assistive Technology FAQ is hosted and produced by Brian Norton. That’s editorial help by Josh Anderson and Belva Smith and receives support from Easterseals Crossroads and the INDATA project. ATFAQ is a proud member of the accessibility channel. Find more of our shows at www.accessibilitychannel.com.
