ATFAQ 199: Q1. Input Devices for Cerberal Palsy, Q2. Devices for limited or no verbal speech, Q3. Tech for staying organized and focused, Q4. Selecting devices for Visual Impairment, Q5. Wildcard: Common Myths about AT and how you respond.

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Welcome to ATFAQ, Assistive Technology Frequently Asked Questions, with your host, Brian Norton, Director of Assistive Technology at Easterseals Crossroads. This is a show where we address your questions about assistive technology, the hardware, software, tools, and gadgets that help people with disabilities lead more independent and fulfilling lives. Have a question you’d like answered on our show, send us a tweet with the #ATFAQ, call our listener line at 317-721-7124, or send us an email at tech@Eastersealscrossroads.org. The world of assistive technology has questions, and we have answers. And now, let’s jump into today’s show.

Hello and welcome to ATFAQ episode 199. My name is Brian Norton, and I’m the host of the show, and we’re so happy that you’ve taken some time to tune in with us this month. We’ve got a great lineup of assistive technology questions for you today, but before we jump in, just want to take a moment to go around our virtual room and introduce Josh and Belva, who are with me today. And so first, Belva. Belva is the Vision Team lead for our Clinical Assistive Technology program, and so Belva, do you want to say hi?

Hello everybody, and how techy is it for you to say, “in our virtual room”?

Virtual room, yeah [inaudible 00:01:30]

I know, right?

Very techy. Excellent, excellent. Next is Josh. Josh is the popular host of AT Update, one of our flagship shows here at the Accessibility Channel here at Easterseals Crossroads. He’s also the director of our Assistive Technology program, so Josh, do you want to say hi?

Hi, everybody. Welcome, welcome.

Excellent, excellent. Hey, just for our folks who are unfamiliar with our show, just to give you a little information about how the show works, we come across different assistive technology-related questions throughout the month, and we try to compile those. We put those into a show and we sit here and we try to answer those the best we can, and so, what you’re going to get today are our answers to these questions.

But what we’d love for you to do is to provide some feedback to us, so if you have any additional information, other things that you would like to share, some answers to the questions that we ask today, please let us know. You can give us your questions or you can provide your feedback by giving us a call on our listener line, that’s 317-721-7124, or sending us an email at tech@Eastersealscrossroads.org. And without further ado, we’re going to go ahead and jump into the first question. We’ve got some pretty broad, big questions today, so we’re going to jump right in and get to those.

The first question is, “What input devices or adaptations can help my friend with CP use computers, tablets, and/or gaming systems more effectively?” And so, pretty much everything you can use, tablets, computers, gaming systems, how can someone who has CP use those most effectively?

Well, I love the way you started that question, Brian, because the first thing I thought when I read that is, “Wow, this is a big question.” It’s kind of open-ended too, so I think our answers, we’re going to find them to be open-ended as well.

Sure.

Number one, this person would definitely benefit from having a full-blown evaluation so that their specific needs could be identified and then addressed. But you’ve got your basic, I’ll steal some words from Josh here, bullet points, things like your adaptive keyboards, and what does an adaptive keyboard mean? Well, it could mean lots of different things, but it could be just the standard QWERTY keyboard, or a one-handed keyboard, just lots of different options with those. Maybe a larger key than normal. I don’t know, track balls, joysticks. The more complicated things would be the head and eye tracking systems. I have had just a little bit of experience with those kind of things, and they are pretty complicated. I mean, I guess once you learn them, they’re pretty simple, but it’s getting them set up and configured that’s the tough part, I think.

Your tablets and the computer, you’re going to also probably want to look at different mounts to be able to get things in the proper location for the individual to be able to access. But the tablet’s going to probably give you a larger option, in that it’s going to have probably onboard apps that you’ll be able to use, where the computer is not going to have any, well, I’m not going to say it doesn’t have any. Maybe it does have some onboard apps, but the tablet, I think, is going to have a lot more of those kind of apps available, such as voice control where you can …

And I have consumers that ask me that all the time, “Why do I have to type what it is I want? Why can’t I just tell the computer to do it? I can do that with my phone.” Well, and that’s a really good question, and I don’t have a really good answer most of the time. I don’t know why it is, and maybe one of you guys have a better answer why it is that we can voice control our tablets and our phones better than we can our computers. It’s getting better, but it still isn’t perfect, as far as the voice control piece.

But that’s my broad answer. Really, the person needs to be evaluated, and then looking into the different keyboard options, communication options, and mounts and those kinds of things is where you’re going to get the best answers. Using your local library of technology loans, like ours is INDATA, and this is just, I’m throwing this out there for one of you guys to jump in and give the contact information for that. But that’s a great time to use that, because it’ll give you the opportunity to maybe put some hands-on things and see what might be appropriate, without necessarily doing the evaluation.

Yeah, so kind of just piggybacking off what Belva said, yeah, you can go to Eastersealstech.com and find our loan library, device demonstrations, and all those. Or if you’re not in Indiana, you can go to Eastersealstech.com/states and find your AT Act, your local one. So, Belva, you kind of answered everything pretty much there, but that’s okay.

Kind of like Belva said, I guess the first things to kind of do is, find out what the individual wants to do, you know, says use a computer, tablets, and/or gaming systems. With the gaming systems, I guess there’s only about one thing you can do with it, which is play games. But if they’re trying to access a computer or tablet, what exactly are they trying to do on that? And then really look at, what barriers do they have to accessing those devices? What can they control independently? And that could be some of the things Belva brought up, controlling things by voice. It could be switches. It could be switches in different places. It could be just a keyboard with maybe a key guard so that the individual can lean on it, maybe help with targeting.

They make adaptive game controllers for Microsoft and for PlayStation. There’s also Microsoft makes their own switches now, so there’s probably not a … Well, there’s not a perfect one thing that’s going to help everyone, and CP especially really affects individuals very differently, just very, very differently from allowing for very little movement to maybe just a very small impairment in mobility and some functions. So, kind of like Belva said, I would start with built-in stuff as you can, especially on tablets, phones, devices. iPads and iPhones now have eye tracking built into them. It’s not great, but the newest version should have even better in there, and also adds head tracking, where you can control with smiles or winking or things like that. There’s also things you can put on your computer. There’s one called Cephable, which is C-E-P-H-A-B-L-E. It’s free to put on your computer and allows you to control it by voice, by head movement, and by some other different kinds of input, alternative inputs, and it’s completely free to put on Windows and Mac computers.

And then just going back to borrowing some things from your local loan library, because that’s going to really help you. They’re going to have alternative keyboards of all kinds. They’re going to have alternative mice, everything from joysticks to track balls to maybe some that are just smaller or larger form factor from a standard mouse that’s going to be able to hopefully give you some of that access, as well as just all kinds of switches. There are switches for everything from controlling it with my head movement to controlling it with a finger to proximity switches, where if I get anywhere near that thing, it’s going to trigger that switch.

Also, most of the time, you’re going to use more than one thing, just because voice is great, but it’s really great if you can still click on something for when your computer doesn’t understand what you’re saying. So, it’s really great to try out some other things, kind of put them together. And depending on what you’re doing, you might use something else for a different device, for a different program, a different app, or things like that. But to just go back to Belva, who answered everything beautifully, I would definitely start with, what am I trying to do? What barriers do I have? And then contacting a local AT Act and seeing what you can kind of borrow or even have demonstrated, just to see how it might work in your space. There’s probably going to be some trial and error. There’s probably going to be some, I don’t know, hiccups and glitches, I guess, as we call them sometimes. But start with the built-in, borrow some things from your AT Act, and I bet you can probably put together a system that’s going to work pretty well.

Josh, you said two very important things there. Free, always try your free options first, because some of this stuff can be very expensive, and maybe the free option is going to be the perfect one. And then there is no one thing. This is a situation where you’re going to have more tools in your toolbox. The more you have, the more likely you will be successful.

Yeah, well, so I don’t really have anything to say anymore, because you guys have said it all. Belva said most, and then Josh finished up. I guess as I’m listening to everything that you guys said, the only other thing I would throw out there just to look at and to consider is just mounting and positioning stuff.

A lot of times, depending on the severity of the need, sometimes just moving something a little bit over to the right, or repositioning it in front of that person, will just give them better access. And we talk about seating and positioning being kind of the foundational part of really access to any of those devices that’s put in front of a person, so if you’re not seated and positioned properly, and able to reach or use those devices there in front of you, you’re automatically diminished the way that they’re going to be able to use those things. And so, looking at some different mounting and positioning types of things.

But again, I think it goes back to, Belva, you said it, Josh, you said it as well, it’s really an assistive technology evaluation. You may also talk to an occupational therapist about some of these things. It really depends on, again, what you’re doing with those devices. Are you casually using the computer to email and to do notes or do those kinds of things, or are there more complex things that you might be doing? Same thing with gaming. What type of games? There could be a whole bunch of different things that you’re using it for, whether it’s school or work or home, just use, thinking through those things. And in an evaluation, you’re going to get some of those things answered, because some of those tools will work differently depending on the tasks that you’re doing, but great answers.

Well, hey, let me open this up to our listeners. Just want to throw this out to you guys. If you guys have any information that would be helpful in answering this particular question, or other insights or advice that you would give, you can give us a call on our listener line, that’s 317-721-7124, or you can send us an email at tech@Eastersealscrossroads.org. Thanks so much.

All right, so our next question is, “What devices support communication for people with limited or no verbal speech? Also, what factors influence the choice between low-tech and high-tech options?” I’ll jump in with this one, so typically, the devices that are used for folks who have limited or no verbal speech, they’re called AAC devices. They’re augmentative and alternative communication devices. There are low-tech options. There’s also high-tech options for those. When you think about different low-tech options for folks, you’re thinking about … Different low-tech options that are available for folks, there’s PECS. PECS stands for Picture Exchange Communication Systems, so you can just put several different pictures, whether it’s in grids or some sort of format, in front of somebody where they can then point to a picture that represents a word. So yes, no, bathroom, food, those types of things. So, there are PECS systems called Picture Exchange Communication Systems.

There are also communication boards and books that have symbols, letters, or words, so you can simply point to those to be able to help put together sentences so that you can be understood in that way. There are alphabet boards, yes and no cards. There are eye gaze boards as well, so there are bigger regions where someone’s simply looking at a part of the board where there’s a word, or again, another symbol or letter. And then there’s also topic boards that are tailored to person’s routines, so maybe you’re going to school or you’re eating a meal or doing other types of activities out in the community. You can have boards that are tailored to those different routines with the things that the person likes to do. And so very, very low-tech options.

The more expensive ones, there’s lots of different things. They’re called speech-generating devices. You’ll probably hear the words Tobii Dynavox, PRC-Saltillo, Lingraphica. Lots of different companies design these speech-generating devices, which they’re basically electronic, and there’s quite a bit of sophistication and layering that can be done with those devices to be able to help be able to form sentences, and then that device will actually speak what’s on the screen back to whoever’s listening. And so, dedicated speech-generating devices are out there as well.

There’s tablet-based AAC devices, like Proloquo2Go, TouchChat, LAMPs for Word, Snap + Core, lots of different ones. They’ll run on iPads, Android tablets, Windows tablets. You can also put those in cases so that they can have some protection when being transported from place to place with the person. And then there’s, again, layers of sophistication, depending on that person’s mobility needs, so you could do eye gaze systems or switch-activated systems. Most of those systems are basically touch-based, so they have touch screens, and you’d simply touch the screen in different places. But again, if you’re not able to touch the screen, you could use things like eye tracking or switch-activated devices to be able to make those things work for you.

So Brian, part two of that is, which factors will help influence the choice between low-tech and high-tech options? My short answer for the difference between low-tech and high-tech is, low-tech is usually no batteries, no electricity. It’s just something very simple. High-tech is going to probably require some sort of battery, Wi-Fi connection, electricity, that kind of thing. Obviously, low-tech is going to be cheaper to free. High-tech, it’s going to be a little more expensive. But what kind of influences do you think a person has to consider whenever they’re trying to make the appropriate recommendation for this type of situation?

I think there’s several. Motor skills, the person’s ability to be able to use the device, so what are their motor skills like? So, if you have severe limitations, you’re going to gravitate to something that’s more expensive, as far as being able to access a particular device or not. Someone’s cognitive ability. Some of the speech-generating devices, the more expensive ones, little higher-tech ones, there’s different layers and sequencing that are required, and so their cognitive ability can play into it, whether it’s a low-tech or a high-tech device.

Also, the environment’s important, and so when you think about the environment is, are you in a noisy group home situation where there’s lots of noise around you? Or is it more quiet or controlled environment? And so, environment plays a big part in that. Sometimes you might not be able to hear one of those speech-generating devices in a noisy environment.

I think cost obviously, and funding is big, so if you’re looking for something inexpensive, you’re going to be looking at the low-tech options. If you have funding, there are more expensive options. Those are oftentimes covered by Medicaid and insurance, and so be thinking about those things. I think there’s also portability and durability. Putting something on your phone or on a small tablet is much more durable, or much more portable, let’s say, than one of the bigger devices. But some of those bigger devices are going to be more durable than some of the smaller ones, and so I think there’s a whole lot there to be looked at for that.

I’d say the biggest factors that influence the choice is what the speech language pathologist says, because while we’re all AT specialists, we are not speech language pathologists. And I’ve always had it explained that these devices make speech. They do not create communication. There’s so much more that goes into communication than just that.

And there are other ones out there. Brian, in talking about the low-tech options, I don’t know if you’ve been to a playground lately? I have little kids. I don’t just hang out at playgrounds, that’d be weird, but most of them actually will have a picture board for communication at the actual … just at the park or at the playground nowadays.

Really?

Yup, so that if an individual does have any kind of barrier to communication, there’s actually … And it looks like a picture board, a very big one, where you can convey your needs and things.

Oh.

And since it’s picture-based, I’m sure it could probably help folks who maybe speak a different language. You know what I mean? Or maybe younger kids that maybe don’t know how to communicate just because of age. But I’ve noticed those there as kind of a really cool low-tech kind of solution for folks to be able to still communicate their needs and things.

There’s also other devices like Talking Keyboards, which is actually the name of the device. It’s just a keyboard, kind of connected almost like a speech-generating speaker, so if you can actually key in words … We do have it in our library, and I know the folks that borrow it usually is someone who’s lost their voice a little later in life, maybe laryngectomy, or I probably said that word wrong, but something where they’re no longer able to kind of speak and communicate that way, and you just type it out and it’ll say whatever you kind of put on there.

So, there are tons of options. You guys nailed pretty much every single darn one of them, but really, the most important is just to involve that speech language pathologist. Especially if they specialize in AAC devices and evaluations, they’re going to be able to probably help so much more and really be able to get you where you want to be with communication, or where your loved one or individual you’re working with wants to be with communication. And they can even help with figuring out the best input methods. So Brian, you mentioned eye gaze or other different ways to control it, mounting all those different parts, they can really help with all those pieces, and probably help the individual get as far along as they possibly can in that communication journey.

Mm-hmm. And I think … Oh, I’m sorry, Brian, but I think with any technology situation like this, it’s always important to make sure that you are seeking information and advice from individuals that have some experience in the area that you’re looking to get help with. And not just the manufacturer of different devices, because oftentimes they’re going to suggest or recommend that maybe you need a very expensive device, because that happens to be what they sell, but maybe not what is necessary for your family member or friend to get them the accommodations that they really need. And just because it’s expensive doesn’t mean that it’s right. Sometimes the free thing is going to be the best thing, and oftentimes that is the correct answer.

And really, I believe if you’re going to get a higher tech device, you have to have, to your point Josh, a speech language pathologist recommend that. They will not purchase those unless someone as a speech language pathologist actually recommends it for you. And again, Josh, you mentioned this earlier as well, it’s all about language development, so you got to think longer-term. Those high-tech tools can help with language development, and so not just the basic needs that some of those low-tech devices offer.

But with that being said, hey, I want to open this up to our listeners. If you guys have feedback or additional information, or things that you would like to share with regard to this question, please let us know. You can give us a call on our listener line, that’s 317-721-7124, or you can send us an email at tech@Eastersealscrossroads.org. Thanks so much.

All right, so our next question is, “What types of technology are available to help people with cognitive or learning disabilities stay organized, focused, and independent in their daily life?”

All right, I’ll start since everyone’s jumping at that one, so that’s a lot of different stuff. Staying organized, staying focused, and staying independent, I can almost look at it as three different things, but I think I figured out kind of what they’re trying to ask here.

I’m going to give a shout-out to Easter Seals of Greater Houston and their BridgingApps program, just because there are … I mean, and we’ll talk about some devices too, but there’s a lot of apps out there that can help you, especially with organization, with staying focused, and maybe even with being independent. But BridgingApps.org, if you go there, there’s a search tool, and you can search apps by need, by disability, by what you’re trying to do, or by name. It will not only tell you what the app is, where it’s available, how much it costs, if there are hidden fees and what those are, but also it gives you reviews, usually made by individuals with disabilities who have used that app, so they tell you what they really kind of thought of it and how it works and everything else. So they’re a great tool just to go try a myriad of them, because there’s a ton of these out there, and different ones are going to work for folks in different ways.

An app I really like for staying independent is something called CanPlan. I think it’s free. If not, it’s very inexpensive. It’s an app. I believe it does iOS and Android, but don’t quote me on that one. And what’s nice is, and this is kind of to the independent and daily life part, you can do a lot with not quite video modeling, because it doesn’t do videos, but it does pictures. So, if something I need to do to be independent is do my laundry, it can have a picture of the washing machine, and then a picture of where you put the soap, and a picture of where you put the fabric softener, and a picture of how to kind of turn it on and everything, and almost make a checklist for that. And that’s one very simple example, but you can make them for almost anything. I mean, they have pictures on there you can use, but you can also add your own, and really kind of make yourself as independent as possible.

As far as organized and focused, really and truly depends on the person, their disability, and just maybe, I guess, what the barriers to success are. I use an app called Todoist to stay organized and focused, and I would probably not get anything done without it. It’s fairly simple to use. You just type something in there, hit Enter, and it puts it on a to-do list. You can expand out and make it much deeper if you want, and they even have a paid version with even more features. But for me, the cheap version … or the free version does just fine, and I’ve used it for years and it’s great and it keeps me on task, helps make sure things don’t fall through the cracks too much, and allows me to kind of keep things going.

But there’s also calendars, both the online, the app version, as well as just a physical calendar. Even a dry erase one somewhere in the house can really work. Staying focused and things like that, there are tons of reminders, timers, and stuff like that on your phone. Also, a lot of folks really like the Time Timer. It is a large clock-looking device, but whenever you turn it, it makes however much time is left red. So let’s say that it’s an hour-long one. I turn it to 60, everything’s red, and as time ticks down, the white kind of takes over and gets rid of the red there. So, it’s not trying to interpret an actual amount of time left in a minute or a second kind of basis, but in a percentage of the whole left, so I know I’m halfway through when that gets halfway filled up. And it can kind of help folks, and it’s actually been shown that it helps a little bit with the anxiety of looking like a clock. Looking at something like that can help a little bit.

So before Belva gets a chance to do it, I will send you to your local AT Act to maybe borrow some of these things. But also, like I said, go check out BridgingApps, just because for a lot of individuals, if they’re already used to using their cell phone or their tablet or their device of some way, then an app on there might be the best bet, just because it’s already going to be with them. They’re already using it. I can’t remember what they call it. It’s not access to entry. That doesn’t make any sense. But anyway, they already know how to use that device, so you’re just putting something else on there, so there’s not as much training, not as big of a leap in skill to be able to use that thing on there.

But check them out just because they got all those apps on there. Most of them are free or have a free version even for a few days. So I always say if there’s something you’re trying to gain, especially with organization or productivity, download three or four of them at once, especially if they’re free or they have a free version, and do the same thing with each one of them. If my goal this week is to remember to, I don’t know, turn in my reports by Friday, put it on all four. See which one makes it easier, delete the other three, or use them for different things, if they can.

I love that. I think we mentioned our loan library before. Tied into the loan library, we also provide demonstrations of different devices, and so a lot of times, if you would like to see three or four of them, kind of compare and contrast a couple of different apps, you can let us know. We can also schedule, especially … Well, only if you live here in Indiana can we do this, but our other AT Acts across the country can also do it in your states or territories. But we could schedule a demonstration anywhere in the State of Indiana, and so we go to your door. We can meet with you. We can share with you a couple of different apps that might meet the particular need, and then we can let you borrow that device or that tablet with the app installed to be able to try it out for 30 days, free of charge.

And so a couple of links to be able to find on our website that information about how to connect with the library, you can go to Eastersealstech.com. Find the loan library there, or you can go to Eastersealstech.com/states and you can look up, if you’re not here in Indiana, you can look up your state or territory AT Act. And so, they will often provide demonstrations and loans as well of different devices to you, so I thought I’d-

And let’s also remember that most of us have a smart assistant in our home, whether it’s an Alexa or a Google device, and those devices are great for setting alarms and reminders, and it’s pretty simple to do. In fact, I rely on mine heavily to remind me, for example, that my dog has to have his flea medicine on the first of the month. So, every first of the month it reminds me, “Hey, Belva, Jax has to have his medication.” Most of us have one of those devices already in our home. That’s a good place to start with just getting some reminders to help stay focused on those daily independent things that we need to do that are easy to forget for all of us.

And I do love BridgingApps. Josh, you mentioned that. I mean, that’s such a good resource, and they have really good reviews from real people who’ve used the actual app, and so definitely check them out. They’ve got a really great search tool called Insignio that lets you dig down in and find the apps that will work best for you. Well, hey, there’s-

And there’s no better way to get the good advice than from people that have actually used the app to find out what works and what doesn’t.

Mm-hmm. Right. These are all OTs, PTs, speech therapists, parents, caregivers who do their vetting of those apps and basically write the reviews, so they tell you the pros, the cons. Instead of getting a bunch of glowing reviews, you get kind of the real story behind what do they do well, what don’t they do well, so super helpful to look at.

Well, hey, I’d love to open this up to our listeners. If you guys have any advice for this particular person about helping someone with a learning disability or cognitive disability stay organized, focused or independent, let us know. We’d love to be able to share that with them. You can give us a call on our listener line, that’s 317-721-7124, or send us an email at tech@Eastersealscrossroads.org. Thanks so much.

All right, so our next question is, “What are some key considerations when selecting assistive technology for individuals with visual impairments?”

W, W, W. What?

Who, what, why, where?

Yeah, what, when, and where.

What, when, yup.

Yup, so what is it that we need to be able to do, and what is it that we want to be able to do, not only need, but want? And also, what is our visual diagnosis? Are we stable? Are we still in a deterioration stage? And what’s the outcome to be in the end, if we know? Oftentimes we don’t know, and that’s okay. And then when, when are you going to be using this, doing this? Is it going to be an all-day activity or is it a short time, maybe not even every day? Then of course, where are you going to be doing it? Inside, outside, at home, on the go, in a group, individually? All of those W questions need to be addressed before you can figure out what we need to consider before we can decide what device might be appropriate for the individual. Yeah, so that’s why it’s so important to sit down with somebody and talk about all of these things.

And if you can sit down in the environment where you’re going to be using the technology, that’s always the best. Sometimes that’s an option and sometimes it’s not an option, and when it’s not, then we have to kind of guesstimate. And sometimes guesstimations are okay, and sometimes they’re totally wrong, so the better information can be collected, the better the end result is going to be. And oftentimes when we ask, “What is the current status of your vision?” We might be saying today that it’s at this level and it works good, but then something will change and make it go totally the opposite way, so we always want to be able to come back and make adjustments when those kind of things happen.

Vision is so very different. One thing I learned a long time ago when somebody says to me, “Oh, I have this” or “I have that,” that doesn’t really tell me a whole lot, because two people can have the exact same diagnosis and be in two totally different stages of the progression of the diagnosis, so things are working totally different for them. And I think I’m getting lost in the question here, but it’s just really, what are we trying to consider when we’re making these recommendations? And really it is just about the individual. What is it that this specific individual is going to be doing, and when are they going to be doing it, and where are they going to be doing it?

And what have they used in the past? That’s really important, because maybe they’ve already tried some things that they’ve not had much success with, and maybe they have tried some things that they have had a lot of success with. Oftentimes, when I’m doing an evaluation, a consumer will say to me, “Hey, I used this or I was shown this, and it worked really good for me.” Well, good, there’s half our battle right there, because you’ve already identified something that’s going to be appropriate for you, but is it going to be the one and only answer? We don’t know that part yet. We have to still figure that piece out. So, that’s what I always go in with is my WWW.

I love that you mentioned, what’s your type of vision loss like, understanding the vision loss. I think during our evaluations we spent quite a bit of time talking about, talk to me about not just medically now what’s happening, but tell me about the past. When did this occur? Is this a lifelong disability? Is this something that’s more recent for you? And then also, tell us about your prognosis. Where is it headed? And a lot of times with eye conditions, think of retinitis pigmentosa, that’s a degenerative need, and you mentioned, when was the last time you had a drop in vision? Or thinking about the type of vision loss, you’re also going to need to start looking at scalable solutions, something that’s not only going to meet your need now, but also six months from now, a year from now, two years from now if you can, so understanding that vision loss is super important.

And then I think this is where you were going with your last part there is just, what’s the user’s comfort with that technology? What have you used in the past? What are you familiar with? Have you played with these types of things before? And are they tech-savvy? Can they use some … There’s a lot of great, sophisticated tools out there, head-mounted video magnifiers, other types of things, but if they’re not tech-savvy, some of those devices may not meet their need, and so you’ll have to kind of look at what type of comfort level do they have with technology to be able to recommend the correct stuff.

And then really it’s, for me also, there’s the purpose and context. And so we also try to figure out, what are you guys doing right now? Are you in school? Are you at work? Is this just to kind of navigate your daily life at home, thinking about money and cooking and cleaning and those kinds of things? Or are you mobile? Are you out there in the community, navigating different places? What’s your mobility like, and what do we need to do to address those types of things as well? So, purpose and context can play a lot into that as well.

And I think also it’s important too, especially when we’re dealing with younger clients who may still be in school or something, for them, it’s very important that they not feel or look different. So, when we’re making our recommendations, we have to keep that in mind. That’s why, thank goodness for all of the eye devices and things like that that so many people are using, but the people with a visual impairment are using them in a little bit of a different manner, but yet they look just like everybody else around them.

I have had more than one consumer say to me, “Oh, I really like that and it might be really helpful for me, but I’m not going to use it,” because they’re going to feel different and they don’t want to feel different. So I think also being able to take that into consideration is very important, because as we determine the devices and the needs and where they’re going to be used and everything, we have to make sure that, as you said Brian, that the individual is comfortable using the device, or it’s not going to get used. We can recommend it, and then it’s going to just collect dust.

And lastly, I’ll throw this out there as well, it’s training and support.

Oh, yes.

How long is it [inaudible 00:38:47] you have to train somebody, and can they get support for it? We’re not going to be at someone’s beck and call all the time to [inaudible 00:38:55] these issues. We’ve got to figure out, what does their support system look like in and around themselves and their daily life? But also, these devices, a lot of tech companies come and go, and you want to make sure that there’s going to be tech support longer-term for the devices that they use.

Right. Their independent successes is also very important, so we’ve got to make sure that they feel comfortable independently using it, or independently getting support when they need it.

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, hey, I just want to open this up to our listeners. If you guys have any information or feedback with this question, thinking about key considerations when looking at technology for individuals with visual impairments, let us know. You can give us a call on our listener line, that’s 317-721-7124, or you can send us an email at tech@Eastersealscrossroads.org. Thanks so much.

Whoo-hoo!

And now it’s time for the wild card question.

All right, so our next question is the wild card question, and that’s a question we haven’t had any time to prepare for, but here we go. The question is, what’s a common myth or misconception about assistive technology that you often hear and how do you typically respond to it?

Well, I commonly hear, “It’s not going to work for me.” “Screen readers can’t do that.” “I can’t do that because I’m blind.” Those are the kind of things that I hear. So how do I typically respond to those is, number one, when was the last time you tried? And when did you last get any kind of training on how to do that? Because I love it when people tell me that their screen reader can’t do that, and it is something that the screen reader can easily do, but you’ve got to know how to make the screen reader do it. The screen reader is not going to just read the PDF on its own. You’ve got to know how to tell it or ask it to do that. So, that’s usually my response is, “When was the last time you tried?” and “When was the last time you got training on how to do it?” And those are the common things that I hear all the time, all the time.

Oh, and I love the, “I can’t use an iPhone because it’s a glass screen.” I, believe it or not, still hear that to this day. Now, when the iPhone first came out, of course, we expected that to be the response, but now we’re here how many years later? I don’t even know how long the iPhone’s been out, but I remember getting my first one and being freaked out about having to use my thumb so much. But I kind of shocked today when I hear a blind individual, or someone who’s trying to help someone who’s blind, say, “Well, no, they can’t use an iPhone because they’re blind.” Okay, well, that’s not true.

All right. Those are really good ones and I still kind of hear those, but one I guess I hear more than you would think is, I don’t know how to really word it, but I mean, I think we talked earlier, there’s no magic bullet. But kind of the magic bullet that everyone with, insert disability here, is helped by this device here. And some of that’s marketing. If I was going to market a device, it would help every person with a visual impairment, every person with dyslexia, every person with this. And it kind of catches people, I don’t know, in a bit of a trap, because especially if it’s on television or the radio or some kind of media where they’re getting a lot of it, if I’m someone that’s had that disability my whole life and suddenly this thing helps everybody with that, well, I’m probably going to jump on board.

But odds are, there’s 10 things that can help with that need, and one of them probably works better for you. Doesn’t work better for the other person with that exact same need or the other person or the other person, and there’s so many things out there. And I mean, that’s why I love being able to be a part of this show, being able to be a part of INDATA and our whole team is because we don’t get into the habit of just, there’s one thing that’s going to be able to do it.

I mean, Belva, okay, if you’re going to be using your computer at work and it’s Windows-based, you’re probably going to need JAWS. I guess I’ll give that as an example of one that maybe is kind of the one.

But maybe-

But there are other options.

Right, but maybe.

But there are other things out there that may even work better for you and your kind of needs. So I guess, yeah, the common myth or misconception is that there’s one thing out there to help with this specific need, when really there’s probably quite a few at all different price points that are going to help people differently. For some folks, yes, that is the one thing that’s going to work the absolute best, but for the other person with the exact same disability, the exact same barriers, it may be more of a barrier than an assistance. So, usually how do I typically respond to that, using the resources we have of, “Here, let’s try a couple things out and see which ones kind of work and what you like or don’t like about them,” and other things in there. So yup, that’s usually the way.

And technology changes so quickly. I mean, it changes all the time, and so because it didn’t work six months ago doesn’t mean it’s not going to work today, but it’s usually longer than that. It’s usually like, “Well, I tried that three years ago, and it wouldn’t do it and I can’t do it.” And yeah, if you sit down with somebody for five minutes and show them some of the amazing things that the phone or the computer can do, they’re like, “Oh, well, I didn’t know that.”

Yup. I remember when I first started doing this, and granted, you guys have been doing it a little bit longer, but I remember working with folks with Dragon NaturallySpeaking, and the first thing they would say is, “Oh, I bought that when it came out and I threw it away, because it never understood anything I said.” And they didn’t realize at the time, you got to talk to it for a long freaking time to get it to really understand what you’re saying. But if you take the couple hours, or days sometimes, depending on your speech, and really train it, it did a pretty good job.

I mean, nowadays, I think you read a sentence or two and it’s ready to roll. And I know before my time, it was even longer, but it was always just like you said, “Well, I tried that and it didn’t work.” And it’s like, “Well, you tried it. You didn’t train it or train on it to really get to be successful with it.”

And as Brian said earlier, I think training is key to success with any of this technology device.

Absolutely.

Very few people can pick up any kind of new technology and just instantly know how to use it. They can pick it up and instantly throw it to the side because, hey, I tried it and it didn’t work, but if you work with it and learn how to use it, you’ll have a whole different experience. And me coming into this industry as a trainer, I’m just, training, training, training, training. That’s all I can say. You might as well not get the device if you’re not going to get the training.

Right. Well, Josh, you kind of stole mine. I was thinking magic bullet, magic bullet, magic bullet, because I use that a lot because I hear that a lot, so I’m going to have to go a different route. I think what I’ll say is, “Using AT means someone is either lazy or not trying hard enough.” I think about a lot of times kids in school, and other kinds of things also, maybe they’re cheating because they’re using piece of assistive technology. And so, for whatever it’s worth, when I hear that, because I do hear that often, AT is a tool. It’s not a crutch, so it’s a tool for them to be able to do the work that they need to do. It’s not necessarily a crutch where they’re using it to really help them do something. They just need the tool to be able to actually do what they’re supposed to be doing. And so, it’s just like glasses kind of help people see, AT can support someone’s independence, their learning, and their participation.

And really, it’s about equity, right? There’s no real shortcuts in life. I think people need to really look at AT as a tool and not necessarily a crutch for folks, but I mean, I hear that a lot. It’s like, “Oh, they’re just using that. It’s helping them. It makes that a lot easier.” Well, yeah, because they really struggle and they can’t do it otherwise. And so, think of AT as a tool, not a crutch, and I’ll kind of leave it at that.

Can I do one more?

Sure. Yeah.

Because I was going to give you another one when you said I stole yours, that it’s always expensive. We don’t want to support assistive technology or pay for assistive technology because it’s always expensive.

Some of it’s expensive. That’s not a lie. Some of it’s horrendously expensive, but hopefully if you ever get anything else from this show, it’s that there’s options out there. So I mean, we talked about an iPhone or an iPad has eye gaze technology, and I’m using the name, but eye control kind of technology. That’s a $3,000 to $6,000 device that’s now built into … I mean, iPads and iPhones aren’t cheap. They’re not giving them away on the street or anything, but if you can use it and use maybe voice control with some eye control, with some head movements or something, you’re replacing a lot of technology in a device where it’s already built in there.

It’s probably going to get better with every update. It’s going to be able to be used with different apps, different programs, different other stuff out there. There’s a lot of tools that are free or pretty low cost, so it’s not always a horrible expense for assistive technology. Some of the stuff is expensive, and that’s when using your AT Act, your loan libraries and things, are just great to try out the free stuff. Try out the medium stuff, try out the expensive stuff, and see which one really can meet your needs and get you where you need to go. But yeah, that’s the other big one that I hear a lot is, “There’s always a magic bullet,” and “It’s always way too darn expensive.”

Right. Love it. Well, hey, I’d love to open this up to our listeners. If you have a common myth or misconception that you hear all the time, let us know what that is and how you respond to it. Give us a call on our listener line, that’s 317-721-7124, or you can send us an email at tech@Eastersealscrossroads.org. Love to hear from you. Thank you so much.

And so, that is the end of our show today. This is episode 199. I mentioned that earlier in the show. Next show is episode 200, and so we’ve been doing this quite a long time, and so tune in next month with us as we jump into episode 200. I think we’ll have some fun on that episode. But first off, as we end this show, I just want to just say thank you to Josh and Belva and give them an opportunity to say goodbye to everybody. So Josh, I’ll start with you today. You want to say goodbye?

Bye, everybody. See you back here for the 200th episode extravaganza.

There you go. Excellent. Excellent. It’ll be fun. And then Belva?

Everybody have a great day. See you at 200.

Excellent. Excellent. Take care, everybody, and we’ll see you next month.

Information provided on Assistive Technology FAQ does not constitute a product endorsement. Our comments are not intended as recommendations, nor is our show evaluative in nature. Assistive Technology FAQ is hosted and produced by Brian Norton. Its editorial help from Josh Anderson and Belva Smith receives support from Easterseals Crossroads and the INDATA Project. The show transcript is sponsored by INTRAC, the Indiana Telephone Relay Access Corporation. To learn more about INTRAC, go to IndianaRelay.com. Assistive Technology FAQ is also a proud member of the Accessibility Channel. To find more of our shows, go to AccessibilityChannel.com.